The Phenomenon-UFOs?

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by nivek, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    I have noticed lately or perhaps for some time now, that people are calling UFOs a phenomenon...Why is that, I do not understand that reference...I do not think this is a phenomenon, to me ufos are alien craft visiting this planet with alien intelligent lifeforms in many of this ufos...There is no phenomenon about this in my opinion, calling it that adds an element of superstition that is not needed, unless I'm missing something...I don't understand why ufos are referred to as a phenomenon...

    ...
     
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  2. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    Yeah I'm uncomfortable with that label as well because it makes the whole subject sound mystical. The problem is that we can't empirically prove that they're alien craft/drones/probes/etc. And of course not all UFOs are alien craft - some sightings might involve rare naturally occurring plasma phenomena like ball lightning or sprites etc. So I think people are calling it "the UFO phenomenon" to be diplomatic - to acknowledge that we haven't proven the ETH explanation beyond any doubt whatsoever yet, and to pander to the people who entertain their own zany ideas like the "cosmic trickster" mythology.

    But you're right. I prefer to use the term AAVs, "anomalous aerial vehicles," to avoid the whole debate about the various types of UFOs some of which may not be technology at all.
     
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  3. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    These guys have been using UAP for a long time. Here's their rationale.

    This is the definition of “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena , or UAP” as offered by
    NARCAP Science Chief Dr. Richard Haines in 1980 and applied by NARCAP.org today:

    “An Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, UAP, is the visual stimulus that
    provokes a sighting report of an object or light seen in the sky, the
    appearance and/or flight dynamics of which do not suggest a logical,
    conventional flying object and which remains unidentified after close
    scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically
    capable of making both a technical identification as well as a common
    sense identification, if one is possible.” (Haines, PP 13-22, 1980)

    There's further discourse on the definition, but I don't seem to be able to copy it.

    What does the term “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena” or “UAP” mean?
     
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  4. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    I dont think it all comes from one source, thats why phenomena might be more accurate. Its probably many things, weird atmospheric plasma phenomena, secret military craft, and aliens might all fit in there somewhere too. And by alien i mean alien to our knowledge, not necessarily extraterrestrial, tough its the most likely "non human intelligence" explanation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
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  5. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    I suppose it depends on your p.o.v. and what you considered part of the the whole enchilada. There are those who would include any number of ingredients that might not be to our taste that go way beyond sightings.

    I just use the term UFO. Instantly recognized but comes along with all sorts of connotation. UAP and AAV might be more technically accurate but I’d say ‘don’t try and church it up son, it’s a UFO’
     
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  6. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    What's up with Google? Searching for "UFO vs UAP" yields just one relevant link on the first page. Bing by contrast yields around eight directly relevant links.

    This is not the first time I've found Google to be less than satisfactory.
     
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  7. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    It's all in the definition, To use the word phenomenon, implies that it is a fact.

    phe·nom·e·non
    /fəˈnäməˌnän,fəˈnäməˌnən/

    noun
    1. 1.
      a fact or situation that is observed to exist or happen, especially one whose cause or explanation is in question.
      "glaciers are unique and interesting natural phenomena"
      synonyms: occurrence, event, happening, fact, situation, circumstance, experience, case, incident, episode, sight, appearance, thing
      "war was not a rare phenomenon in the 18th century"
    2. 2.
      a remarkable person, thing, or event.
      synonyms: marvel, sensation, wonder, prodigy, miracle, rarity, nonpareil, curiosity, spectacle;.
    It doesn't bother me when someone uses the phenomenon moniker, Those people are a lot friendlier and open than the guys that used to call us Tin foil hat people.

    [​IMG]

    To me it speaks of a more open public, It's just a small step away from proclaiming them a natural phenomenon.
     
  8. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    This interpretation is ironic since the primary advocates of the UAP terminology are those emphasizing a scientific approach to the subject matter. Examples, NARCAP, The Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies, Leslie Kean, the UK Ministry of Defence. I don't think anything mystical whatsoever is intended by the most prominent users of the UAP nomenclature.
     
  9. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    UAP was created as a term in order to avert the intense stigma that had been heaped upon the term UFO (which is such a vague term to begin with that it's worthless). This strategy was surprisingly successful, even though it's basically synonymous with "UFO," simply because it sidesteps decades of media stigma and widespread ridicule by complete assholes like Phil Klass. That fact alone made it the preferable choice for anyone who wanted the subject to be considered seriously.

    But the word "phenomenon" does have a very vague and mystical implication, whether you personally feel that way or not. "Phenomenon" tends to define not only something that isn't understood, but today it also tends to imply something which isn't understandable or somehow supernatural. For example EVP means "electronic voice phenomenon" - allegedly this refers to dead people talking in the presence of a magnetic tape recorder and having their "voices" recorded by it. Psi powers are also regarded as a "phenomenon." Culturally, if not officially, "phenomenon" is increasingly becoming synonymous with "paranormal phenomenon," and I think this insinuation is leading a lot of people to think of exotic technology operating in our airspace as some kind of supernatural phenomenon like ghosts or some kind of magical mental projections.

    The extent to which people participating in this field are favoring mystical/supernatural explanations is shocking. The choice of terminology is almost certainly a contributor to this troubling and totally irrational trend.
     
  10. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    I don't disagree with the connotation you have pointed out. But my claim is that the most prominent promoters of "UAP" do not mean it in that way. For them, it's an attempt (as feeble as it may be) to be more rigorous and objective. (See NARCAP's explanation above.)

    An amusing point relevant to this topic is that those who employ "UAP" often have to define it for their audiences as "UFO," thus rendering the innovation futile.
     
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  11. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    My point was that the term UAP is not being used, but it is being called simply "the phenomenon" which does have mystical or superstitious implications...

    ...
     
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  12. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    What part of, a fact or situation that is observed to exist or happen, implies Mystical or superstitious implications?

    Forgive me if I sound like a dick on any level, I've got an abscessed tooth it's driving me to literal tears. I'm gonna have to go to the emergency room., Oh my god why does pain reach these kinds of thresholds...
     
  13. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    I'm not familiar with that usage. Are they saying "the UFO phenomenon" or just "the phenomenon?"
    If the latter, maybe supply a quote or two.
     
  14. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    The latter which could imply any spooky creepy shadow or superstitious implication or cosmic trickster...:Whistle:

    ...
     
  15. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    I'm just gonna say it, I've always had this theory, That with us humans being so different from everything else on this planet, I think we pretty much are aliens, and, The reason they seem to have such an interest in us, could equate to a babysitter kind of scenario.

    Yes yes, I realize some people will innately "Not like this theory" Still there is so much evidence that we really don't belong here when you compare us to all the other life here.
     
  16. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    because we don't know what it is yet
     
  17. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    My thing Is I don't quite understand the offense at the word phenomenon. But, in fairness, I've always had this weird hangup with textbook definitions, words commonly aren't used in this really proper way That I like to keep referencing.
     
  18. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    A lot of people in ufology and ufo community seem to be very sure of what it is... including some debunkers.

    Im not among them. It remains open to me, though some possibilities are more probable than others. Only thing i know is that it exists and that its strange. Anything beyond that is speculation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
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  19. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Its more than mere speculation to me that UFOs are alien craft with aliens inside them, the decades of countless UFOnauts reports and abduction reports are both evidence and support of this hypothesis...In my opinion, a higher percentage of UFOs are just that, alien craft containing alien travelers...

    ...
     
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  20. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    I want to believe that too, But Also, Consider that if we could, Wars would be fought with drones. Soldiers and manpower. Logically weather the beings are clones or just copies. They could be some form of a drone. I base this only on the concept of the proclaimed hivemind. if some form of hivemind communication is transpiring, Maybe the guys in the craft aren't the real aliens? It's just as easy to assume they are, I'm just saying, Logically, If we didn't have to risk manpower to get things done, we wouldn't right? I'm not saying it's not aliens, I'm just saying the beings we are seeing, May not be the beings that are actually the real extraterrestrials. We may just be seeing their remote-controlled possibly biological drones.
     

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