To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate

Discussion in 'Social Place' started by Cran, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

    Oceans and fish too, look that up...I will never eat seafood...
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  2. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

    Mate your jumping all over the place, one minute your talking about vaccinations, the next Alzheimer, then plague..
    Try and stay on track.

    The Australian Department of Health is not in anyone's pocket, not the pharmaceutical companies, not anyone's.
    Department of Health | Surveillance of adverse events following immunisation in Australia annual report, 2014

    OK, so here are some real stats for you, read the whole thing, but it is pretty heavy going...
    I will highlight in RED
    And Summarize in YELLOW
    And Jump about a bit for your convenience...

    This report summarises Australian passive surveillance data for adverse events following immunisation (AEFI) for 2014 reported to the Therapeutic Goods Administration for 2014 and describes reporting trends over the 15-year period 1 January 2000 to 31 December 2014. There were 3,087 AEFI records for vaccines administered in 2014; an annual AEFI reporting rate of 13.2 per 100,000 population. There was a decline of 5% in the overall AEFI reporting rate in 2014 compared with 2013. This decline in reported adverse events in 2014 compared with the previous year was mainly attributable to fewer reports following the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine as it was the 2nd year of the extension of the National HPV Vaccination Program to males. AEFI reporting rates for most vaccines were lower in 2014 compared with 2013. The most commonly reported reactions were injection site reaction (27%), pyrexia (18%), rash (16%), vomiting (9%), headache (7%), and syncope (5%). The majority of AEFI reports described non-serious events while 7% (n=211) were classified as serious. There were 5 deaths reported with no clear causal relationship with vaccination found.

    Five deaths were recorded as temporally associated with receipt of vaccines in 2014:

    • A 77-year-old male immunised with a seasonal influenza vaccine died 9 hours later from sudden cardiac arrest. He had left ventricular dysfunction and a medical history of hypertension.
    • A 58-year-old male had an infected leg wound prior to vaccination with diphtheria and tetanus vaccine and seasonal influenza vaccine. He developed acute disseminated myeloencephalitis, which progressed over 6 weeks leading to death. Symptom onset date was 5 days after vaccination.
    • A 2-month-old female infant who had received Infanrix hexa® (Dyptheria and Teanus), Prevenar 13® (A type of Pnemonia) and Rotateq® (A form of Gastro)died 4 days following immunisation in hospital. Bordetella pertussis DNA was detected from the epiglottis on post-mortem. Bordetella pertussis = Whooping Cough
    • A 1-year-old male child in the terminal stages of spinal muscular atrophy type 1 died 7 days following vaccination with measles-mumps-rubella (Priorix®), seasonal influenza (Vaxigrip Junior®) and Hib–MenC (Menitorix®) vaccines.
    • A 2-month old male infant died 2 days following immunisation with Infanrix hexa®, Prevenar 13® and Rotateq®. He had underlying congenital heart disease (atrio-ventricular septal defect and aortic arch repair with post-operative complications).
    OK to summarize this for you, out of 100,000 people over 15 years,
    There were 3087 adverse reactions that were varying severity as follows.
    The most commonly reported reactions were injection site reaction (27%), pyrexia (18%), rash (16%), vomiting (9%), headache (7%), and syncope (5%). The majority of AEFI reports described non-serious events while 7% (n=211) were classified as serious. There were 5 deaths reported with no clear causal relationship with vaccination found

    And 5 deaths as follows...

    • 1 was an Elderly Man who died of a heart attack
    • 1 was a 58 year old man with an infected leg who died of a disease that attacks the nervous e system after an acute infection,
    • A 2 month old baby who died with whooping cough, but was NOT part of the introduced vaccines.
    • A 1 year old child in terminal stages of muscular dystrophy
    • A 2 month old baby with an existing heart disease and died of complications following on operation

    The total number of reported AEFI in 2014 decreased compared with 2013. The majority of AEFIs reported to the TGA were mild transient events. The data reported here are consistent with an overall high level of safety for vaccines included in the NIP schedule.

    Now look at this link!!!!
    Pertussis | Whooping Cough | Surveillance | Cases by Year | CDC
    1922 - Over 100,000 cases
    1932 - over 200,000 cases
    The cases stay over 100,000 till 1948
    Then decline steadily into the 1970s and 1980s where they drop to as low as a few thousand.
    Now here is the significant bit, the cases have been increasing since then and are now up to the 10, and 20 thousands again.

    Why is this you ask????
    Whooping cough vaccinations were introduced in the 1940s, thus the decline.
    Now the increase again and why is that?
    People like you who are against Vaccinations!!!!

    Again from the CDC, Whooping cough is deadly for babies.
    Pertussis | Pregnancy | Whooping Cough Deadly for Babies | CDC
    Since 2010, CDC sees between 10,000 and 50,000 cases of whooping cough each year in the United States. In fact, there are cases reported in every state. 2012 was a record year with more than 48,000 cases, the most cases that CDC has seen in the past 60 years. Most of the deaths each year are in babies younger than 3 months of age. Since 2010, up to 20 babies die from it each year in the United States.

    OK Cran....that is just Whooping cough, shall I start on Rubella?
    You mentioned that many of the diseases that vaccinations are for are minor, like Measles
    Your right, if your healthy. However...

    Immunise - Rubella (German measles)
    Rubella (German measles) is a contagious viral illness that is generally mild, causing a fever, rash and swollen lymph glands. However, if contracted by mothers during the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, the disease can cause major congenital abnormalities in up to 90% of infected babies.

    When you grow up and have kids, and don't vaccinate them, and your child spreads the "Harmless German Measles Virus" to a pregnant mum, who then has abnormalities in her new born, let me see you look her in the eye and explain to her why vaccinations are bad.
    That is just two mostly preventable diseases by vaccinations. Do you want me to do this for the other diseases as well.

    Now tell me oh wise one of 25 with intuition and just knows stuff, that does not need facts.
    What has plastic in the water, mercury in fish, lead on our roofs, and old folks with Alzheimer or any of the other dribble you have spoken of, got to do with vaccinating children.
    Oh yes, don't forget depression, thats not real either... Hmm Tell my ex wife who got Post Natal depression ofter my first son was born in 1989 who just about went nuts with depression. And those tablets...what a co-incidence that the tablets corrected your imaginary non existent chemical imbalance and she is as good as gold when on her antis.

    And please, if you are going to reply to this. Don't waste my time with "I just know stuff"
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  3. Cran

    Cran Adept

    I have a response.
    See growing up we got around 9 vaccines, my gen. This isn't something I'm strongly against- more so just mindful of that it could be a light risk. I don't worry.
    Time passes. Study says autistic people have 2-4x the aluminum in their brain than an average person and it says that its likely vaccines.
    I only worry because even 3 of the 9 vaccines my gen got, were from ages 13-30. But they are giving a higher dose, with already suggestions of previous amounts causing damage, to children less than 6 years old. 46 vaccines it is at and I think it's harmful. And honestly you can't say for sure if it isn't because we don't have the trial and error. We just startded doing this the last couple years. It's like the first test to see how it goes. We don't know

    Well I do.

    Mercury in fish is related to mercury in vaccines.. never talked about lead on roofs, lead isn't really a metal but still toxic.. alzheimers is relevent because it's a caused by aluminum (which shots have levels of).

    That's nice about your wife but all the people I ever knew the pill didn't change a thing, still equally depressed.
    A lot of people reportedly "have mental problems" just talking about it online, how they can't do anything. And yes they are on their pill. Complaining how their lives are in the gutter. Didn't work magically for them. I pick up a lot of info. Thousands are like this

    Now to tackle your argument now, to not set your flare at the start of my response... which would be catastrophic for a <insert my display>
    to see

    Yes it's nice that the vaccines actually seem to work. It doesn't sound accurate that there is less people taking vaccines for whooping coughs today than in the 1940s as it's almost required today in some areas or pressured, so that is surprising if that is the reason.

    How many mothers within 10 weeks of pregnancy will get Rubella?
    I'm not saying you shouldn't have ANY shots although I still personally wouldn't, I just think it's getting to a level of deathlyness and unexperimented
  4. Cran

    Cran Adept

    Well not necessarily deathly, but , you know.

    And the risk factor of that study didn't measure brain diagnosises did it.
    It didn't measure if they had learning problems, problems focusing, etc.
    Of course you won't get people just dying, well rarely.
    That doesn't mean that unreported damage to their whole perception of reality via metals depositing inside their brain, as autistic people have 3x as much as regular, doesn't mean that isn't obviously happening. But yeah your study reveals the risk of instant physical symptoms like seizure or death. Nothing else.
  5. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

    I am sorry @Cran but your response is meaningless without backing it up with some facts. Everything you have said is just your opinion. Show me some facts to support your opinions, otherwise thats all they are. And very ill informed ones at that. Show me some studies by reputable medical organizations, not ill informed end users and I will listen. Till then, your words are just white noise.
  6. Cran

    Cran Adept

    It's well known that mercury, aluminum, cause brain disorders.
    Thimerosal, a mercury metal originally put in vaccines actually killed people and caused brain damage.
    Which after finding this, they had to take it out.
    Any google search "aluminum alzheimers" or "metals brain disorders" will give you the same links to the proof i can show.
  7. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

    The FDA position on preservatives in vaccines:
    In January 1928, in the early stages of an immunization campaign against diphtheria, Dr. Ewing George Thomson, Medical Officer of Health of Bundaberg, began the injection of children with toxin-antitoxin mixture. The material was taken from an India-rubber-capped bottle containing 10 mL of TAM. On the 17th, 20th, 21, and 24th January, Dr. Thomson injected subcutaneously a total of 21 children without ill effect. On the 27th an additional 21 children were injected. Of these children: eleven died on the 28th and one on the 29th. (Wilson 1967)

    If you google "metals brain disorders" ethylmercury you get a new age ebook and that is it.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  8. Bluelight007

    Bluelight007 Honorable

    “Thanks” to those parents who are refusing to vaccinate their kids , there is an outbreak of measles in Romania. People are dying
  9. Cran

    Cran Adept

    You mean.. was.. an outbreak? 30 people died. 100 people die a day in the US from guns, and you are bringing up one bad out break in the last 20 years. They want 2 million more people to take vaccines to ensure the safety, (85%->95%) in my eyes, that's 2 million people who avoided brain injuries. 2 000 000 compared to 30.

    You get an e-book and that's it? No.. you get 40 pages of results
  10. Bluelight007

    Bluelight007 Honorable

    There is no point in arguing cause you cannot change the mind of anti-vaccers.
    You know, in Russia they believe that the Americans sell special vaccines to kill people.
    I am vaccinated, have always been and am perfectly healthy
    If you don’t want to, who’s making you?
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  11. Cran

    Cran Adept

    I think Russia likely uses metals as well.
    Yes it's not super bad if a grown adult chooses to vaccinate, but my relative is less than 3
    And she had this sense of 'don't let them do bad things' kind of energy, she thinks its not helpful
  12. Bluelight007

    Bluelight007 Honorable

    When I was born, I was given all the shots I needed. And I was born in the USSR, so the level of medicine was not that high. I am still alive:)
    But my mother got measles when she was 25. We almost lost her
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  13. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

    Unless you do individual ampules you have to use preservatives. It is just that simple.

    The preservative Thimerosal breaks down into ethylmercury. You would have to prove ethylmercury is a problem.

    "metals brain disorders" is a useless search. There are about 40 metals on the periodic chart. Some are probably bad. Your claim is all metallic compounds are bad and that is clearly wrong.

    There are a number of metals required for health and without them you die.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  14. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

    Another stupid post, never let the truth get in the way. I am still waiting for something other than your opinion Cran.
    All I hear is bluster with no supporting evidence. Waiting... waiting...
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  15. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

    When I was young I was vaccinated and still got the measles, but I was fine, then the military gave me a vaccine for yellow fever, was deadly ill for over 3 weeks from that...
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  16. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

    Any medication has the possibility of side effects, some more than others. If a persons choice to not immunize their kids, only put their own kids at risk, then that would be up to their own concience.
    But as it stands the facts are thus...

    There is no clear connection between immunization and Autism, or deaths for anything but the most remote cases. And even then the connection is arguable.

    I have shown 15 years of studies in Australia had 5 deaths after immunization. All with preexisting illnesses.

    Almost all adverse effect for over 3000 instances were not nice, but also not particularly dangerous

    Immunization overall works. Look at the link for whooping cough studies since the 1940s

    My conclusion to this is simple. While not 0%, the chances of your child dying from immunization are so remote, the good far outweighs the bad.

    Whooping cough is very often fatal for infants,
    The chance of birth defects for mothers who contract German measles is incredibly high.
    And the list goes on..

    And here is the big one.
    Your un-immunized child, can put my child and my family at risk. So your decision to NOT immunize does not confine the possible consequences to your children. They put the entire community at risk.
    You have no right to do that. It is in my opinion barely different to you getting of a plane from a holiday, knowing you have potentially been exposed to say SARS or some other contagious disease, and saying, you know what, i'll be fine. It is irresponsible to not immunize your child as it puts others at risk.

    These are the FACTS of the argument.

    This is why some places enforce immunization, and this is why I support it.
    If there were FACTS that supported the possible risks outweighing the proven benefits, you would have an argument.
    Until then, it is just scare mongering by uninformed people that are causing health risks to others.
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  17. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

    What I find disturbing is the lack of studies to quantify the risk.

    I tend to think the problem is adjuvants not preservatives. Adjuvants let them use less vaccine about 1/3rd as much typically as I recall.

    There should have been a study long ago with ampules of pure vaccine, vaccine with adjuvants, and vaccine with adjuvants and preservatives, and we could even toss in a placebo control group and a not innoculated group. A double blind random trial.

    This would tell us if there is a problem and where the problem is if there is one.

    Can't make decisions without infomation.

    It could be that the act of innoculation has a small risk.
  18. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

    Your a man who loves stats :)
    My previous post showed 5 death in 15 years in Australia, with 3085 I think mostly minor adverse reactions.
    And all had preexisting illnesses.
    Perhaps the studies that say they are safe, combined with the lack of serious adverse reactions leave nothing to study.
    If you had 100 deaths, you could go OK, so are there links to immunisation.
    But here we have 5 in 15 years.
    I can only conclude by that that there is no link and nothing to study.
    The supposed link to Autism has been proven wrong, what does it leave?
  19. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

    That response makes sense and works for me.

    There were 131000 deaths from whooping cough in Africa in 2002 and 17 in the US in 2001.

    That pretty much says it all.
  20. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

    Of course there is this incident which throws up red flags of deceit:

    Indian doctors sue Bill Gates for harming children with deadly 'humanitarian' vaccines

    Yes, the Microsoft founder-turned-icon of Third World humanitarianism is an absolute crook, and an utterly vile one at that. Reports indicate that Gates' many crimes against humanity in the form of illegal vaccine testing on innocent children are finally being addressed in a new lawsuit filed by the Indian government, which seeks to stop this demon of death from killing any more babies.

    The Supreme Courts of India are currently conducting an extensive investigation into the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation's devious actions abroad, which mainly involve testing deadly vaccines on poor, and oftentimes illiterate, children in developing nations without informed consent. According to Health Impact News, the case focuses specifically on illicit human experimentation that occurred with the two available vaccines for HPV, Cervarix (GlaxoSmithKline) and Gardasil (Merck & Co.).

    Back in 2009, the Gates Foundation quietly funded trials of Gardasil on some 16,000 tribal school children living in Andhra Pradesh, India. According to a report published in Economic Times India back in August, many of the children fell violently ill not long after receiving the vaccine, and at least five of them died.

    In a separate trial of Cervarix that took place around this same time, also funded by the Gates Foundation, an estimated 14,000 tribal children in Vadodara, Gujarat, were vaccinated for HPV. The result of this trial was two children dead and possibly hundreds of others severely injured. In both trials, many of the consent forms used were obviously forged, and many of the children's illiterate parents were coerced into signing consent forms with their thumbprints, not really know what they were doing.

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