UFOs: skeptics, disclosure, and contact

dr wu

Noble
Just a reflection of how primitive we as a species truly are...There's no comparison between a million year old technologically advanced alien species and the ape-men of earth with barbaric technology that burns fossil fuels and treats his world like a dumpster...

...
Could you expand on your comment...I'm not exactly sure how that relates to what Asimov pointed out.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Could you expand on your comment...I'm not exactly sure how that relates to what Asimov pointed out.

His comments are from a primitive point of view, with almost a childlike explanation of something beyond his understanding...None of us can truly understand the means in which an advanced species from another world could harness the means to traverse space....Then to say 'to play games' is a very childlike whimsical dismissal showing the limits of his primitive thinking...Just another primitive ape-man amongst many here on this planet, we are likely perceived in such way, as primitive ape-men, by a million year old advanced species visiting us...There is no way currently we can come close to understanding their motives and thought processes nor the reasons why they would come here...

...
 

dr wu

Noble
His comments are from a primitive point of view, with almost a childlike explanation of something beyond his understanding...None of us can truly understand the means in which an advanced species from another world could harness the means to traverse space....Then to say 'to play games' is a very childlike whimsical dismissal showing the limits of his primitive thinking...Just another primitive ape-man amongst many here on this planet, we are likely perceived in such way, as primitive ape-men, by a million year old advanced species visiting us...There is no way currently we can come close to understanding their motives and thought processes nor the reasons why they would come here...

...
That old trope..or cliche , is often brought out ...that we can't possibly understand an advanced race . IMHO that's BS and does indeed reflect limited thinking. Hydrogen is hydrogen everywhere in the Galaxy...etc, so there would be a connection on that level of science, physics, and math somewhere. Any race would have had to start in the beginning with limited science and work forward..so there would be a connection....albeit going back some time.
I also don't think that sentient space traveling species are that common in the Galaxy...life in general perhaps but those that can travel between the stars...not so much. To find another sentient race that is on the verge of that would be very significant and IMHO would be of great interest to another one. I don't believe they would fly around for decades and buzz people. I believe they would initiate contact.

As to travel ability, I might agree on that. It's certainly possible that an alien race might have figured out a way to tavel FTL or some other way. Still,, it might entail a lot of energy and be dangerous. And to come all this way and not say hello...? To me that's the height of ignorance.

BTW...Asimov was an intellectual and a great sci-fi writer...and to think he wouldn't have thought of these points is belittling his memory imho.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
That old trope..or cliche , is often brought out ...that we can't possibly understand an advanced race

I'm with you on that one. I never discount 'human nature' and all the negative that goes with it. Would be foolish to do so. Ufology itself is a case study in group dynamics. But 'human nature' has it's positives as well.

We're here now on our own dime. I look at a planet full of 'near misses' and see Evolution at work not a breeding program. Not sure how we can simultaneously ascribe our development to an external influence and then talk about how primitive and warlike and prone to self extinction we are. You'd think they would have baked a better cake than that if they went through all the trouble.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Not sure how we can simultaneously ascribe our development to an external influence and then talk about how primitive and warlike and prone to self extinction we are.

Who here is crediting our development to external sources?...That's another discussion of it own which I personally don't agree with...We are here on our own dime but we can't keep sidestepping the elephant in the room...An advanced species from another world would be insane to land on the streets of New York City with cake and balloons in a first contact situation...From an outside perspective we as a species are happily killing off our own in droves, and with it our world...No matter how advanced our own technology is, we haven't developed ourselves enough to stop acting and living like barbarians, speaking of ourselves as a whole...We are a primitive barbaric species and it appears aliens visiting this world have enough sense of self-preservation to not land and say hello...

...
 

nivek

As Above So Below
BTW...Asimov was an intellectual and a great sci-fi writer...and to think he wouldn't have thought of these points is belittling his memory imho.

As an intellectual, if he was, I don't know enough about him personally, but I think he would have been happy to discuss this topic in greater depth and not take any offense as you seem to...Being a science fiction writer, yes he's done great work but putting things in perspective, his work is one of fiction and we are discussing reality, there is a difference...We think too highly of ourselves if we think we can understand the reasonings and rational of a truly alien species from another world...We are out of our league here and in uncharted territory, its not like Europeans coming across the water meeting native Americans for the first time...This has a far greater implications not just for us but for them too...

...
 

dr wu

Noble
As an intellectual, if he was, I don't know enough about him personally, but I think he would have been happy to discuss this topic in greater depth and not take any offense as you seem to...Being a science fiction writer, yes he's done great work but putting things in perspective, his work is one of fiction and we are discussing reality, there is a difference...We think too highly of ourselves if we think we can understand the reasonings and rational of a truly alien species from another world...We are out of our league here and in uncharted territory, its not like Europeans coming across the water meeting native Americans for the first time...This has a far greater implications not just for us but for them too...

...
No offense meant but you were the one to use the words 'primitive and childlike' regarding his comments, which Asimov was anything but. Everything we post here is fiction when we are all speculating on these things just like writers of sci-fi.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you know the old saying on that one. ;)
Again I believe you exaggerate the situation ,but as I already said it's all speculation. We are simply guessing on this specific aspect.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
the words 'primitive and childlike'

Smart men take offense to those words but learned men would not, an intellectual would understand the context in which those words were being used...

it's all speculation

Except the fact that something is flying in our atmosphere which doesn't appear to belong to us, because whatever those somethings are, they out fly and out maneuver our military...

...
 

dr wu

Noble
Smart men take offense to those words but learned men would not, an intellectual would understand the context in which those words were being used...

Except the fact that something is flying in our atmosphere which doesn't appear to belong to us, because whatever those somethings are, they out fly and out maneuver our military...

...
Regarding your comment on 'smart men' ,that's once again an opinion about what 'context' you were using, but it's a fair point.
But you missed the point of the speculation reference. It was our guess work about the level of an advanced race , their motivations ,and our possible understanding of them. It had nothing to do with 'something flying around ' our skies.

btw....the big reveal is tomorrow. ;)
 

nivek

As Above So Below
It was our guess work about the level of an advanced race , their motivations ,and our possible understanding of them.

Agreed and that was part of my original point regarding what Asimov is claimed to have said "playing games"...We don't know the motivations of an alien species if they were/are visiting our world to dismiss it as game playing or tricks and we certainly aren't talking about any cosmic trickster as some of these ufo groups claim to exist lol...Point is we simply don't know either way, we don't know for sure what's going on and it would be shortsighted to dismiss this ufo business out of hand so easily as if it were nothing, in my opinion...Of course many people aren't interested and that's understandable, that's why we have fields of study and work and experts in such fields, different people being interested in different things and pursue such interests to their completion and I'm not referring to armchair interest...I can only speculate here but if these things are buzzing naval ships and if the military has high resolution imagery of such vessels, I would think that the Pentagon has their best minds on the problem to figure out what they are or who they are, if nothing else then for the sake of security...

...
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
We are a primitive barbaric species and it appears aliens visiting this world have enough sense of self-preservation to not land and say hello...

Could be anthropomorphizing there. We have no idea what they think or how or why they are here.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Considering the entire menu I'd say 'the military' in general is exercising considerable restraint whatever their reasons. When Iranians gunboats swarm a warship the intent is straightforward and so is the response. Little hovering weird lights probably made for a little editing in their Rules of Engagement.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
btw....the big reveal is tomorrow. ;)

I'm not expecting much from that, this disclosure business some are hyping up is going nowhere IMO...I'll be extremely surprised if they reveal anything credible...

...
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
You know, #32 might actually be something to think about twice. RoE for warships, fighters etc.

Either they know what it is and deliberately ignore it or something else is going on. I'm sorry but the largest and most elaborate military in the history of the world isn't just sitting there watching the light show. Restraint in the face of an unknown, maybe being in awe at amazing capability causes hesitation, but at some point the rubber has to meet the road and if these things are such a prevalent phenomenon there HAS to be a reaction and the RoE would have to be addressed. I wouldn't expect that to be made public but if you were to CO of Omaha wouldn't you be wondering?

Hypersonics and close in drone defense are not on the menu, they're waiting for the waitress to pick up and bring to you real soon. CNO: Hypersonic Weapons at Sea to Premiere on Zumwalt Destroyers in 2025 - USNI News

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-5.14.15-PM.png

USS Portland (LPD-27) successfully disabled an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) with a Solid State Laser. US Navy Image
 

August

Metanoia
I'm not expecting much from that, this disclosure business some are hyping up is going nowhere IMO...I'll be extremely surprised if they reveal anything credible...

...

They may simply be after more funding from Congress I mean they were given $22,000,000 awhile ago to investigate UAPs and it looks like they have come up with nothing . A few more bits of info thrown at Congress might get them some more folding stuff.
 

August

Metanoia
Its 9-05am in Washington DC as I type has anyone said anything yet with the big reveal ? I am going to bed now its 11-10pm so can someone let me know when something happens with the Pentagon/ Congress UAP revelations.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Its 9-05am in Washington DC as I type has anyone said anything yet with the big reveal ? I am going to bed now its 11-10pm so can someone let me know when something happens with the Pentagon/ Congress UAP revelations.

Just checked in Twitter, nothing yet...

...
 

dr wu

Noble
You know, #32 might actually be something to think about twice. RoE for warships, fighters etc.

Either they know what it is and deliberately ignore it or something else is going on. I'm sorry but the largest and most elaborate military in the history of the world isn't just sitting there watching the light show. Restraint in the face of an unknown, maybe being in awe at amazing capability causes hesitation, but at some point the rubber has to meet the road and if these things are such a prevalent phenomenon there HAS to be a reaction and the RoE would have to be addressed. I wouldn't expect that to be made public but if you were to CO of Omaha wouldn't you be wondering?

Hypersonics and close in drone defense are not on the menu, they're waiting for the waitress to pick up and bring to you real soon. CNO: Hypersonic Weapons at Sea to Premiere on Zumwalt Destroyers in 2025 - USNI News

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-5.14.15-PM.png

USS Portland (LPD-27) successfully disabled an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) with a Solid State Laser. US Navy Image
One wonders if they took a laser shot at any of the tic tacs to see if they could disable them...and if not...why not?
 

dr wu

Noble
What kind of lasers do you mean? I've never heard of laser weapons on planes.
The ships have solid state lasers and have had weapons to disable drones and even aircracft for some time now.
The alleged tic tacs and gimbal were also in the vivinity of carriers etc. that could have taken a swipe at them.
The Portand above was referenced in post 34 by pigfarmer.
 
Top