Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
For the record, here is somewhat sober scientific report on alleged alien material.
View: https://youtu.be/J6xtxZwrGLY
View: https://youtu.be/J6xtxZwrGLY
UFOs: skeptics, disclosure, and contact
- Thread starter Todd Feinman
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Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
nivek
As Above So Below
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Now that's pretty interesting.
I know that the international coalition of warships that have been shooting down drones and missiles by the score are slated for some ant-UAS upgrades that don't require consumables. I can't find the article at the moment but I read about a unit that's small enough to be deployed on any US Navy vessel, and is in process now.
There are also a plethora of other systems in development and it sounds like Fishpaugh is right in the middle of it. In that context a national security exemption seems logical.
It also sounds ( I have to say it sorry ) fishy as hell to me. They made a distinction about UAPs and really don't want to talk about it. Like, they have encountered 'UAS systems' that are outside any known envelope that maybe don't react, or do so in an unexpected way and need a 'working group' to address it? I'd guess they're more worried about other state actors possessing tech that we don't but JG was right, this must be a raw nerve.
Like various agencies, you would think these people would be in a position 'to know'
nivek
As Above So Below
nivek
As Above So Below
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
So the county sheriff's office 'outed' all of Grusch's personal information pertaining to his 2018 problem in which he headed to a mental health facility for a little checkup from the neck up. They did not admit him.
I'd be seriously pissed too and he has good reason., sounds like his lawyers will have a field day. Some interesting tidbits if you actually read the complaint
I'd be seriously pissed too and he has good reason., sounds like his lawyers will have a field day. Some interesting tidbits if you actually read the complaint
nivek
As Above So Below
nivek
As Above So Below
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Secret UFO ‘crash’ 6 years after Roswell still of concern to US intelligence officials, leaked texts reveal: ‘Slack-jawed’
Alex Mitchell
Published Aug. 9, 2024, 4:50 p.m. ET
Roswell was just the beginning.
The 1947 UFO incident that rocked a small city in New Mexico and shocked the world was followed by a less famous but perhaps even more damning event six years later — with recently-leaked government texts appearing to shed new light on the night in question.
In the partially redacted communication, shared on social media, a top-ranking intelligence official notes that the public would be “slack-jawed” to know the entire truth.
6
Locals have been telling the story of a supposed UFO crash in Kingman, Arizona for decades. New leaked government communication may shed light on the night in question.12 News
The information reveal appears to validate a longstanding urban legend in the city of Kingman, Arizona, a Route 66 pitstop one state to the west, where locals have spent nearly three-quarters of a century retelling the story of a 1953 crash.
Multiple onlookers reportedly saw at least one UFO go down on May 21, just outside the small Mojave Desert city, located 100 miles from Las Vegas.
“It’s very rare to have multiple witnesses, multiple sources of information, confirming an incident like this,” Preston Dennett, author of “UFOs Over Arizona: A True History of Extraterrestrial Encounters in the Grand Canyon State,” recently told local channel 12News.
In a previous interview with AZ Central, Dennett called the occurrence “one of the best-verified UFO crashes in the United States.”
A local institution, the Mohave Museum of History and Arts even boasts an exhibit on the crash, which locals — and more recently podcasters — have been trying to get to the bottom of for years.
6
The event in Kingman is said to have dwarfed the more famous 1947 incident in Roswell, New Mexico.Universal Images Group via Getty Images
Harry Drew is one of those locals — the area historian created a documentary on the extraterrestrial mystery a number of years back.
Drew told 8NewsNow that witnesses described seeing eight UFOs — also called unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs) modernly — in the night sky, engaged in what appeared to be a kind of battle. Ultimately, he said, three crafts went down.
The crash occurred around the same time as a nearby Nevada nuclear test series codenamed Operation Upshot-Knothole, declassified military documents show.
Consistent with other global sightings of UFOs near spiked points of radiation, an atomic bomb was detonated two days ahead of the incident, according to the report.
During the night in question, one craft was burned up when it collided with a mountain, another was found intact in the desert with no damage, and a third crash-landed near a small reservoir, which the military and a team of scientists camped around to recover, Drew claimed.
6
Just six years after the Roswell crash, the people of Kingman, one state over, experienced a similar phenomenon.AP
Although much of the researcher’s theory has been debated in the UFO world — he also believes experimental radar brought the crafts down — Dennett corroborates a military response of 40 officials to one of the sites.
“The object was described as metallic, 30 feet wide and three and a half feet high, oval-shaped with portholes,” Dennett said in 2016. “Inside were two to four, four-foot tall humanoids, deceased according to most sources, with large eyes and wearing metallic suits.”
The pilot appeared to have died in the crash.
6
Revealing texts demonstrate that a top US official had knowledge of the Arizona occurrence.phonlamaiphoto – stock.adobe.com
In the many years to follow, Dennett has traced the incident through old reports and government documents. He uncovered a frequent code name used for one scientist: Fritz Werner.
“We now know him to be Arthur Stansel,” Dennett said recently.
“It was [Stansel’s] job to basically determine the speed of this object as it came down, based upon the gouge it made in the soil, and he estimated it was about 1200 miles per hour.”
The project was top secret — scientists arrived on a blacked-out bus so they wouldn’t know where they were. An Air Force Colonel impressed the importance of staying quiet on the group.
6
Kingman is a popular pitstop along Route 66 in the Mojave Desert, 100 miles from Las Vegas.Brad Pict – stock.adobe.com
However, 20 years later Stansel signed an affidavit confirming his presence at the mystery site. Dennett claims the government took the craft into secret custody, according to information of a claim revealed 50 years after the fact.
“These craft are scooped up, taken to various Air Force bases, scientific labs, and studied intensely, intently to figure out exactly what we can figure out about how they work,” he said.
And, while this may all seem like an excellent plot for a sci-fi thriller, the eye-raising reports appeared to be further legitimized after a former intelligence officer recently went public with a text conversation he had with an unidentified “senior” government official in 2020.
6
Leaked documents show that a senior government official had vast knowledge of the incident and other UFO protocols.Christopher K. Mellon/X
The conversation between Christopher Mellon, Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense and the anonymous source said people would be “slack-jawed” to learn what the government actually knows of the incident.
The government also knows “who recovers crashed UAPs [unidentified anomalous phenomenal] under what authorities.”
The other shocker — the feds are still “dealing” with the Kingman incident.
“We’re vacuuming up info,” the partially redacted conversation reads. “We also know that a still highly classified memo by a Secretary of the [United States Air Force] is still in effect to maintain the cover on UAPs.”
Secret UFO ‘crash’ 6 years after Roswell still of concern to US intelligence officials, leaked texts reveal: ‘Slack-jawed’
ByAlex Mitchell
Published Aug. 9, 2024, 4:50 p.m. ET
Roswell was just the beginning.
The 1947 UFO incident that rocked a small city in New Mexico and shocked the world was followed by a less famous but perhaps even more damning event six years later — with recently-leaked government texts appearing to shed new light on the night in question.
In the partially redacted communication, shared on social media, a top-ranking intelligence official notes that the public would be “slack-jawed” to know the entire truth.
6Locals have been telling the story of a supposed UFO crash in Kingman, Arizona for decades. New leaked government communication may shed light on the night in question.12 News
The information reveal appears to validate a longstanding urban legend in the city of Kingman, Arizona, a Route 66 pitstop one state to the west, where locals have spent nearly three-quarters of a century retelling the story of a 1953 crash.
Multiple onlookers reportedly saw at least one UFO go down on May 21, just outside the small Mojave Desert city, located 100 miles from Las Vegas.
“It’s very rare to have multiple witnesses, multiple sources of information, confirming an incident like this,” Preston Dennett, author of “UFOs Over Arizona: A True History of Extraterrestrial Encounters in the Grand Canyon State,” recently told local channel 12News.
In a previous interview with AZ Central, Dennett called the occurrence “one of the best-verified UFO crashes in the United States.”
A local institution, the Mohave Museum of History and Arts even boasts an exhibit on the crash, which locals — and more recently podcasters — have been trying to get to the bottom of for years.
Bigger than Roswell?
6The event in Kingman is said to have dwarfed the more famous 1947 incident in Roswell, New Mexico.Universal Images Group via Getty Images
Harry Drew is one of those locals — the area historian created a documentary on the extraterrestrial mystery a number of years back.
Drew told 8NewsNow that witnesses described seeing eight UFOs — also called unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs) modernly — in the night sky, engaged in what appeared to be a kind of battle. Ultimately, he said, three crafts went down.
The crash occurred around the same time as a nearby Nevada nuclear test series codenamed Operation Upshot-Knothole, declassified military documents show.
Consistent with other global sightings of UFOs near spiked points of radiation, an atomic bomb was detonated two days ahead of the incident, according to the report.
During the night in question, one craft was burned up when it collided with a mountain, another was found intact in the desert with no damage, and a third crash-landed near a small reservoir, which the military and a team of scientists camped around to recover, Drew claimed.
6Just six years after the Roswell crash, the people of Kingman, one state over, experienced a similar phenomenon.AP
Although much of the researcher’s theory has been debated in the UFO world — he also believes experimental radar brought the crafts down — Dennett corroborates a military response of 40 officials to one of the sites.
“The object was described as metallic, 30 feet wide and three and a half feet high, oval-shaped with portholes,” Dennett said in 2016. “Inside were two to four, four-foot tall humanoids, deceased according to most sources, with large eyes and wearing metallic suits.”
The pilot appeared to have died in the crash.
What did the government know?
6Revealing texts demonstrate that a top US official had knowledge of the Arizona occurrence.phonlamaiphoto – stock.adobe.com
In the many years to follow, Dennett has traced the incident through old reports and government documents. He uncovered a frequent code name used for one scientist: Fritz Werner.
“We now know him to be Arthur Stansel,” Dennett said recently.
“It was [Stansel’s] job to basically determine the speed of this object as it came down, based upon the gouge it made in the soil, and he estimated it was about 1200 miles per hour.”
The project was top secret — scientists arrived on a blacked-out bus so they wouldn’t know where they were. An Air Force Colonel impressed the importance of staying quiet on the group.
6Kingman is a popular pitstop along Route 66 in the Mojave Desert, 100 miles from Las Vegas.Brad Pict – stock.adobe.com
However, 20 years later Stansel signed an affidavit confirming his presence at the mystery site. Dennett claims the government took the craft into secret custody, according to information of a claim revealed 50 years after the fact.
“These craft are scooped up, taken to various Air Force bases, scientific labs, and studied intensely, intently to figure out exactly what we can figure out about how they work,” he said.
And, while this may all seem like an excellent plot for a sci-fi thriller, the eye-raising reports appeared to be further legitimized after a former intelligence officer recently went public with a text conversation he had with an unidentified “senior” government official in 2020.
6Leaked documents show that a senior government official had vast knowledge of the incident and other UFO protocols.Christopher K. Mellon/X
The conversation between Christopher Mellon, Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense and the anonymous source said people would be “slack-jawed” to learn what the government actually knows of the incident.
The government also knows “who recovers crashed UAPs [unidentified anomalous phenomenal] under what authorities.”
The other shocker — the feds are still “dealing” with the Kingman incident.
“We’re vacuuming up info,” the partially redacted conversation reads. “We also know that a still highly classified memo by a Secretary of the [United States Air Force] is still in effect to maintain the cover on UAPs.”
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Actually, what I was thinking was that Mellon came to light on this topic when Elizondo did and was part of the original 2017 NYT groundbreaker. At least CM has a record we can verify publicly and of course he held a very senior position who certainly was/is in possession of all sorts of things that can't be made public having nothing at all to do with UFOs. I don't think you ever really fully retire from positions like those for that reason.
Mellon certainly does want us to believe the Grusch narrative, which is not exactly in lock step what Elizondo had been saying other than the government has secret programs to study UAP. I didn't think Lue had been talking about retrievals, or if he is until recently.
To me this is a bit like politics. Of course I have an interest but it is like drinking from a firehose sometimes and for my own mental health have to keep it at arm's length.
Now, the 'Grusch narrative' could be literally true and many believe it to be so. Many. many startling claims that have not been validated, like Lue that give me no reason to believe them. Mellon's email is of course to a redacted source and is of course shocking - which is why we are seeing it. To be shocking.
This is conspiracy minded for sure but I just can't but think that narrative is useful at a different level for a different purpose other than Disclosure or alien contact or any of that. There's a reason we are hearing this and it isn't ET.
Mellon certainly does want us to believe the Grusch narrative, which is not exactly in lock step what Elizondo had been saying other than the government has secret programs to study UAP. I didn't think Lue had been talking about retrievals, or if he is until recently.
To me this is a bit like politics. Of course I have an interest but it is like drinking from a firehose sometimes and for my own mental health have to keep it at arm's length.
Now, the 'Grusch narrative' could be literally true and many believe it to be so. Many. many startling claims that have not been validated, like Lue that give me no reason to believe them. Mellon's email is of course to a redacted source and is of course shocking - which is why we are seeing it. To be shocking.
This is conspiracy minded for sure but I just can't but think that narrative is useful at a different level for a different purpose other than Disclosure or alien contact or any of that. There's a reason we are hearing this and it isn't ET.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
I already had my doubts about Lue Elizondo and have no idea what to make of Christopher Mellon other than I don't think he's playing the same game the rest of us think he is. Now News Nation and Ross Coulthart seem to have been pulled into that Knapp-Corbell orbit and my skepticism is only increasing, I stopped giving them any credibility which is a shame, I like the way Ross Coulthart presents. George Knapp too but it doesn't mean I have to believe what they are saying.
So now Lue's saying the same thing as Grusch, which he hasn't been for several years now, and he offers the same allegations minus proof. These people are leading others by the nose and the trail isn't leading to a hanger with a spaceship in it. In my opinions.
BTW - don't misinterpret these comments s a dismissal of the phenomenon, it isn't. It's quite real and has been around for a very long time. I just think that what these jokers are talking about is a very human game we are playing amongst ourselves that is using the topic to gain leverage.
Think about it - people like Richard Doty sounding an awful lot like David Grusch ( .... and who actually believes what Doty says ? ) 'the government' specifically 'the military' whatever organ you prefer has been talking out of both sides of it's mouth about this for decades. No, nothing to see here, we've checked and yet we have these leakers, whistleblowers, mysterious packages dropped off in mailboxes, William Moore's outright confession. One part denies while the other constantly hints. To me that smells more like intelligence and propaganda than ET.
Ex-Pentagon official claims US has recovered nonhuman specimens
So now Lue's saying the same thing as Grusch, which he hasn't been for several years now, and he offers the same allegations minus proof. These people are leading others by the nose and the trail isn't leading to a hanger with a spaceship in it. In my opinions.
BTW - don't misinterpret these comments s a dismissal of the phenomenon, it isn't. It's quite real and has been around for a very long time. I just think that what these jokers are talking about is a very human game we are playing amongst ourselves that is using the topic to gain leverage.
Think about it - people like Richard Doty sounding an awful lot like David Grusch ( .... and who actually believes what Doty says ? ) 'the government' specifically 'the military' whatever organ you prefer has been talking out of both sides of it's mouth about this for decades. No, nothing to see here, we've checked and yet we have these leakers, whistleblowers, mysterious packages dropped off in mailboxes, William Moore's outright confession. One part denies while the other constantly hints. To me that smells more like intelligence and propaganda than ET.
Ex-Pentagon official claims US has recovered nonhuman specimens
Todd Feinman
Dogs are angels that poop in your yard.
I understand your frustration. I have been surprised by the claims Grusch has made, and Elizondo too. The scenario they describe seems too Hollywood, and somewhat different from what I have experienced personally. I've been waiting to see what happens along with everyone else. At this point:
1. I think Grusch believes what he is saying.
2. There is and has been a great deal of smoke emanating from something.
3. There are images and there is footage we aren't allowed to see for various claimed reasons.
4. There is information that remains classified and unable to be obtained through FOIA requests.
5. There is no hard evidence unambiguous enough to convince skeptics at this point.
From what I have experienced with the phenomenon, I think it might be something stranger than nuts and bolts. I am perplexed about the different aspects of the phenomenon; it can be a metallic saucer, formations of otherworldly lights, objects under the water, huge objects in the sky.... I think we might be conflating a bunch of different phenomena and they are all mixed together in the UFO basket.
I am still dumbfounded by the bizarre synchronicities around my first encounter. I don't see how the circumstances could be planned for with nuts and bolts. Or even made to happen at all. If Grusch et al. are the tools in some sort of psyop, I can't see what the point would be, unless to distract, misinform, and gain control of a situation involving something real.
1. I think Grusch believes what he is saying.
2. There is and has been a great deal of smoke emanating from something.
3. There are images and there is footage we aren't allowed to see for various claimed reasons.
4. There is information that remains classified and unable to be obtained through FOIA requests.
5. There is no hard evidence unambiguous enough to convince skeptics at this point.
From what I have experienced with the phenomenon, I think it might be something stranger than nuts and bolts. I am perplexed about the different aspects of the phenomenon; it can be a metallic saucer, formations of otherworldly lights, objects under the water, huge objects in the sky.... I think we might be conflating a bunch of different phenomena and they are all mixed together in the UFO basket.
I am still dumbfounded by the bizarre synchronicities around my first encounter. I don't see how the circumstances could be planned for with nuts and bolts. Or even made to happen at all. If Grusch et al. are the tools in some sort of psyop, I can't see what the point would be, unless to distract, misinform, and gain control of a situation involving something real.
Todd Feinman
Dogs are angels that poop in your yard.
If Grusch et al. are the tools in some sort of psyop, I can't see what the point would be, unless to distract, misinform, and gain control of a situation involving something real. He and Nell and others all have very high clearances. The danger of real leaks etc. would be enormous
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Ah. I see. Yes, agreed it's a sticky situation for very high level officers to come forward in that fashion. It does seem though, that those statements while alarming to the general public really didn't convey all that much actual information. I have yet to see or hear about all 'the other' whistleblowers. They internalized their investigations and have been keeping very quiet about it all. Dean seems to be the one following the confusing details and rendering an explanation of any of that. It does not paint a promising picture for those anticipating Disclosure. Grusch went over like a fart in church but is dissipating everywhere but in the Elizondo/Mellon/Knapp/Corbell circle.
I am convinced the phenomenon is quite real and would not be surprised to find that some, not all, of the anecdotes and reports we've heard about are accurate while others total fabrications. Also agreed it's likely more complex than just nuts and bolts. Either way, I make a distinction between what is likely really ET and what we are witnessing with AARO and our government and the endless chase-the-bogus-bunny racetrack circle of ufology.
If you take the time to go look we've seen and heard versions of all this before. Not necessarily at a Congressional level but this is 2024 and I think it's the same old game repackaged. What is that game? Not sure exactly but it's the game we always play - we are in competition with our near peers. Don't you think their intelligence services were hearing that testimony and saying WTF to themselves?
The pestilential MJ12 document drop, Moore's confession, Paul Bennewitcz. Richard Doty convinced that poor man that we had recovered craft and beings and a secret underground base. Weren't there ridiculous stories about fire fights and alien vivisections and all sorts of comic book stuff that grew out of that? "Not all of our encounters were friendly" says Lue. Uh huh. We still talk about friggin' airship waves. Has our collective memory failed us so seriously that we can't connect those dots or even seem to remember them ?
One of the points John Alexander's made in his UAP book is that 'the military' and 'the government' are made up of US and there are millions of people involved so the entire breadth of public opinion is represented, including views on UFOs. I suspect that's the disconnect within the intelligence services we are seeing I think Doty really did have some mandate that he took upon himself to exceed. It's possible that some of the hints and drops we've heard, maybe from people like Mellon, are part of that.
Personally I'd believe a witness from an Ariel school type mass sighting long before I take any unsupported story fed to me by someone wearing a uniform no matter what clearances they have.
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pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
While walking the dog I thought of that.
Yes, Grusch does seem sincere but a word or caution from personal experience: anybody can say anything no matter who it is. As trite as that is I think it applies.
Ever deal with a real sociopath or someone with serious personality disorders? I have, some in my own family. It's beyond the scope of this thread but I have learned to be very circumspect about shocking statements of any sort. A few times in these threads I've explained that as a small kid my own mother and brother were found to be completely full of shit about this topic and others similar to it and took enjoyment out of tormenting me. In the end that was extremely useful to me and what I have said about this has borne itself out plenty of times.
I'll say this about Grusch though. I look for patterns and this guy really does not fit in with the others I have already filed as attention seekers and opportunists. Neither does Mellon. This is why I say there's probably more than one game being played here in a sea of differing opinions among the military and intelligence communities that may not be related to ET.
I see Elizondo and those in that orbit as opportunists responsible for a lot of the current UFO zeitgeist that are just using the phenomenon for their own ends at our expense. What if there's another element doing exactly the same thing for different purposes? That's the maskirovka I have been referring to and it sounds just like the crap we've already heard ad nauseum just spruced up. Of course 'the military' sees these things and captures data on them - but apparently they don't seem to do much which is fortunate because I think we are totally impotent to bother them in any way. So, after decades of this maybe we use it to make our near peer adversaries wonder just exactly what the hell we do have hidden in the barn.
Todd Feinman
Dogs are angels that poop in your yard.
Great posts, Pigfarmer. I'm just holding off on final judgements on some folks, though I can certainly see why everyone is totally fed up, at this point. I likely won't read Lue's book, and the whole circus and the passionate people on both sides of the issue are somewhat entertaining. It feels good to be out of the whole shebang, and the endless search for evidence and proof.
A lot of the circular and endless appeal to authority arguments, boil down to the late Harry
Reid. He was apparently denied access to information about UFOs.
A lot of the circular and endless appeal to authority arguments, boil down to the late Harry
Reid. He was apparently denied access to information about UFOs.
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nivek
As Above So Below
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmNv8CvwUKQ
Enhanced View of 1930's 'Alien' Seen in Alaska
A photo of a small 'alien' entity said to have been taken in the 1930s was recently AI-enhanced by UFO researcher and analyst Scott Waring. According to the person who sent the original image to Waring, his grandfather saw the entity, estimated to be about 3 ft. tall, in a remote area of Alaska and chased after it until he was close enough to capture an image. Waring used AI to enhance the original image and has conjectured that the eerie white color of the 'alien' could have been a type of containment suit it was wearing. Further, it may have had a kind of blurring technology to evade scrutiny..
Todd Feinman
Dogs are angels that poop in your yard.
Jay Stratton is coming forward:
www.hollywoodreporter.com
There will also be another hearing later this month, apparently.
Another UFO Boss to Break Silence in Major Book Deal: “The Process of Disclosure Has Begun”
Jay Stratton's memoir promises to reveal "shocking discoveries, challenges and breakthroughs" in the government's research on UFOs/UAPs.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
There will also be another hearing later this month, apparently.