UFOs: skeptics, disclosure, and contact

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Well, here's the thing. Not the UFO Thing but a General Thing.

Recently I went down the garden path of mediumship for my own purposes. Somehow I thought by applying my own brand of thinking on the topic that I would have a revelation - in fact I was looking for something quite specific.

What I found is that it's one of those topics that you have to decide for yourself where to place the marker between what may be real and what obviously isn't. Even when trying to apply some order and discipline to my approach it's one of those topics that does not lend itself to that very well. Too many personalities, beliefs, what have you to ever make sense of it all. So I dipped my toes in and am satisfied with my result but it isn't what I started out looking for, Along the way I had to question my own motives, beliefs and reasoning. In short I gave myself as through an examination as possible because I found myself believing my own bullshit. I think of it as a healthy self checkup.

As to UFOs, it's about the same thing. All sorts of tantalizing clues, accounts from seemingly and genuinely credible people who say incredible things, people who wrap themselves in a uniform or degree or position - some persona intended to make their views seem more weighty. I take the same view on this and other things that are supposed to have quantifiable physical properties - the Grover Krantz approach. Show me a body.
 
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Dejan Corovic

Celestial
As to UFOs, it's about the same thing. All sorts of tantalizing clues, accounts from seemingly and genuinely credible people who say incredible things, people who wrap themselves in a uniform or degree or position - some persona intended to make their views seem more weighty. I take the same view on this and other things that are supposed to have quantifiable physical properties - the Grover Krantz approach. Show me a body.

Ignore people, listen to the science.

95% of people are completely scientifically illiterate, so they can't lie about what they don't understand. But, if they quote physical effects that are scientifically verified, then they ad to their own credibility.

For example, there was a well known Italian case called Zanfretta case. In that case a policeman who was investigating the scene came and touched Zanfretta's jacket. Jacket was dry, policeman touched Zanfretta's hair, hair was dry, policemen touched roof of the Zanfretta's car it was hot. Why is all this relevant? Zanfretta was standing in a drizzle for at least 20 minutes and he was completely dry and his car was hot to touch. That comes from policeman, not the witness and policeman wrote it down in the report.

What does it mean? Both Zanfretta and his car were roasted by microwaves. When electrical conductors, like wet jackets and wet hair and metal body get exposed to microwaves they hot.

Was this unique to Zanfretta? No, Betty Cash, from Cash & Landrum UFO fame, when she tried to get back into her car and touched car's handle handle was so hot that it was painful. Even more, whole plastic dashboard melted so much that one can sink fingers into plastic. Betty Cash was so severely exposed to the microwaves that she had swollen blisters inside her body cavities, like her mouth and eye sockets. Microwaves again.

What did Zanfretta and Betty Cash knew about microwaves? Probably just a basics, like that one cook dinner with them. But neither of them were carrying microwave antennae to heat up themselves or their cars.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Cash Landrum seems more like a test gone wrong. Not familiar with the other case. How would exposure to microwaves mean extraterrestrial influence? It doesn’t just because a more conventional explanation isn’t forthcoming. Not every bump in the night is a ghost
 

Dejan Corovic

Celestial
Cash Landrum seems more like a test gone wrong. Not familiar with the other case. How would exposure to microwaves mean extraterrestrial influence? It doesn’t just because a more conventional explanation isn’t forthcoming. Not every bump in the night is a ghost

Do you know of any natural source of microwaves out there in the open nature?

Like you are on the road winding through mountains, or you just follow trail through the forest, and you come back home nicely cooked up with huge blisters all over your body. How do you explain it?

UFOs are the only explanation. There are no naturally occurring sources of microwaves.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
UFOs are the only explanation

When I warn against confirmation bias this is precisely what I am talking about. Fishing through forty + year old cases to find something that fits your theory is unlikely to produce the damning evidence you might think. For that you're going to need more, something substantial. Hence the reason Roswell lives on. Did Corso or anyone else express interest in a crash retrieval before Berlitz and Moore wrote The Roswell Incident in 1980 ? Could be and I am unaware but I don't think so. Those two we concerned with selling popular books not research and so was Bill Birnes - a.k.a 'blinky' from all the stupid UFO shows on tv. Twelve years after he helped Corso author his epic tome he was on local tv telling us the UFOs many were seeing were alien spacecraft and not the balloon launched road flares they really were. I put that in the same category as Elizondo and Mellon - people with real credentials - associating themselves with the likes of TTSA and Jeremy Corbell. Same candy, different wrapper.

I had to google the Zanfretta case and only read the wiki. Certainly sounds interesting but not for the same reasons as you have. The police supposedly produced 52 witnesses and physical evidence so they apparently took the man seriously enough.

I happen to like this quote. Certainly NOT off the cover of Communion, eh ? But it came out from under hypnosis and that is an extremely slippery slope. I've heard the Barney Hill tapes and they will raise the hairs on your head, but I'm not a trained psychiatrist an my interpretation is as a layman, it's a visceral response. Dr. Simon's reasons for using this method he had developed from his work with veterans suffering from PTSD well before the coin was termed or the condition even fully accepted. His first person contemporary clinical, professional interpretation of Barney's sessions were different. In both cases something clearly happened to these men and there was some physical evidence to support that fact, but only that. To take the next step and take it literally and then bake it into ufology's support structure is a long one.

"They are green, with triangular yellow eyes, with big thorns, they have green flesh and their skin is full of wrinkles as if they were old. Their mouths look like they’re made of iron, they have red veins on their heads, pointed ears and arms with fingernails… with round things… They come from the third galaxy."
— Rino Di. Stefano, The Zanfretta Case: Chronicle of an Incredible True Story (2014)

A sociologist would be a better choice IMO to sort out cases well before an electrical engineer or scientist gets involved because much of the phenomenon is sociological in nature, self generated. Slender man, scary clowns, all fit into the same psychological folder. Some combination of a desire to participate in an event or outright attention seeking behavior. ASB is something I considerable experience in, in fact I am up to my hips in it on a daily basis. Long story. It's the klinkers, the one-offs that don't fit the pop culture mould - like Pascagoula - that are really interesting.
 

Dejan Corovic

Celestial
When I warn against confirmation bias this is precisely what I am talking about

What confirmation bias?

According to medical report by the hospital to which she was submitted Betty Cash's eyes were popping out of her eye sockets because of blisters. Doctors then added insult to injury by putting her into brooms cabinet, because they thought she was radioactive. There are no naturally occurring microwave sources. Unless you are suggesting that she microwaved both herself and her son and her employee, Ms Landrum. @pigfarmer at least you are the guy who chooses to stand under common sense flag. This is not a hear-say this is material evidence.

Here it this video Stanford University's neurologist prof. Dr. Garry Nolan talks about dozens of UFO witnesses that CIA officers brought to him to cure them from microwave induced injuries to their nervous system. And prof. shows MRI scans of victim's brains with clear signs of microwave caused damage:


View: https://youtu.be/u7cKhIJnTpo?list=PLFxrvo1-sXr29U02wwYelTgGVqNRHRRMy


And it was made clear to him by CIA officers that victims were UFO witnesses.
 
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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
You are missing the point. OK. They were microwaved, which you don't really know but are taking as fact based on reports from over forty years ago. Ipso facto it must be alien in origin. In my book both of those things are questionable. You want it to be therefore it is, and that's the bias. You want Bigfoot to be real so every bent tree or howl in the night proves it. I believe there is real truth to all this I would prefer to reserve judgment until there's a good reason to do so.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Like a body or piece of technology or metal but any reality that might exist there is layered in years and years of nonsense and deliberate hoaxes, many of which continue to find traction today.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
What confirmation bias?

According to medical report by the hospital to which she was submitted Betty Cash's eyes were popping out of her eye sockets because of blisters. Doctors then added insult to injury by putting her into brooms cabinet, because they thought she was radioactive. There are no naturally occurring microwave sources. Unless you are suggesting that she microwaved both herself and her son and her employee, Ms Landrum. @pigfarmer at least you are the guy who chooses to stand under common sense flag. This is not a hear-say this is material evidence.

Here it this video Stanford University's neurologist prof. Dr. Garry Nolan talks about dozens of UFO witnesses that CIA officers brought to him to cure them from microwave induced injuries to their nervous system. And prof. shows MRI scans of victim's brains with clear signs of microwave caused damage:


View: https://youtu.be/u7cKhIJnTpo?list=PLFxrvo1-sXr29U02wwYelTgGVqNRHRRMy


And it was made clear to him by CIA officers that victims were UFO witnesses.


CIA. Microwaves. Sounds like the Havana Syndrome. Since the CIA - that has no domestic mandate and never, ever lies about anything - said it was ET it must be so. Eric Davis has credentials too and he isn't being taken all too seriously.
 

Dejan Corovic

Celestial
You are missing the point. OK. They were microwaved, which you don't really know but are taking as fact based on reports from over forty years ago. Ipso facto it must be alien in origin. In my book both of those things are questionable. You want it to be therefore it is, and that's the bias. You want Bigfoot to be real so every bent tree or howl in the night proves it. I believe there is real truth to all this I would prefer to reserve judgment until there's a good reason to do so.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Like a body or piece of technology or metal but any reality that might exist there is layered in years and years of nonsense and deliberate hoaxes, many of which continue to find traction toda

@Dejan Corovic

just chewing the fat here. bored today and actually glad for it.

:) Same here.
 

Dejan Corovic

Celestial
OK, I see some angry responses to the previous post.

But no worries. There is no love lost. There are 200,000 cases on databases in US, France and UK. Gov. had just confirmed to all of us that UFOs should be taken seriously, only gov. wants all the good stuff for itself. Nothing new there. So we can do on our own research by taking these 200,000 cases more seriously. There is about half a dozen UFO books written by engineers and physicists with all the scientific details about UFOs.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I admit to being unable to sit through videos like that, my preference is audio podcasts. I also admit to listening to The Black Vault which I know can be a partisan choice. Thing is, I am only peripherally aware of a lot of this and what JG says makes sense. We all like things that are going in the same direction as our own belief system.

One of the things the Navy does not want made public - and I don't think there's any dispute about that - is the shapes of the objects their pilots are seeing. Very significant point there, IMO.

The War Zone is a site I like. The concept of a suite of aircraft is not new, I recall reading about it in Popular Science years and years ago, along with lighter than air ships with heavy lift and loiter capability. Took decades before technology made them possible. I don't know much about the current state of airships beyond speculating that we have at least a few specialized sorts deployed for those 'over the horizon' strikes. But suites of aircraft to accompany a penetrative nuclear bomber are being discussed openly and tested. So are suites of craft to accompany 5th gen fighters and unmanned tankers flying from aircraft carriers. Very slick but still recognizable. Quick read:
General Atomics' Gambit Drones To Have Different Airframes With Common 'Cores'


1664018615716.png

If we know about it it ain't super secret anymore. Clearly the Navy is testing very, very unconventional craft and they absolutely do not want to talk about shapes because obviously that would reveal something secret. That doesn't say extraterrestrial to me. In amongst all this there may very well be ET but if they are as passive as they apparently always have been perhaps they are less of a priority. Under those circumstances isn't it obvious why they might amp up the alien aspect as a distraction? This is the traditional recipe, tried and tested for years. Maybe Lue is just following orders. He is a skilled intelligence operative after all.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Not UFO related but what the hell.

General Atomics. Sounds like something out of a Heinlein novel, right? They make some cool stuff including a whopper of a rail gun. From memory I think the original idea behind the USS Zumwalt involved a rail gun.
The Navy's Railgun Looks Like It's Finally Facing The Axe In New Budget Request

I believe that class ship is now a guided missile destroyer and the concept of dedicated littoral combat vessels is fading, facing a budget crisis. Apparently missiles get far more bang for the buck. Check out the brief holeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee - **** video in this link:
New Look At Air Force's Ship-Killing Smart Bomb In Action, Seeker Details Revealed

Cowabunga !
 

Rick Hunter

Celestial
Well, here's the thing. Not the UFO Thing but a General Thing.

Recently I went down the garden path of mediumship for my own purposes. Somehow I thought by applying my own brand of thinking on the topic that I would have a revelation - in fact I was looking for something quite specific.

What I found is that it's one of those topics that you have to decide for yourself where to place the marker between what may be real and what obviously isn't. Even when trying to apply some order and discipline to my approach it's one of those topics that does not lend itself to that very well. Too many personalities, beliefs, what have you to ever make sense of it all. So I dipped my toes in and am satisfied with my result but it isn't what I started out looking for, Along the way I had to question my own motives, beliefs and reasoning. In short I gave myself as through an examination as possible because I found myself believing my own bullshit. I think of it as a healthy self checkup.

As to UFOs, it's about the same thing. All sorts of tantalizing clues, accounts from seemingly and genuinely credible people who say incredible things, people who wrap themselves in a uniform or degree or position - some persona intended to make their views seem more weighty. I take the same view on this and other things that are supposed to have quantifiable physical properties - the Grover Krantz approach. Show me a body.

I don't have a scientific background but I have a degree in History and so use those skills when examining paranormal stuff. History is all about evaluating sources: people and written records. The historian tries to figure out the essential message, or thesis, of a source and compare that to other sources. If all the sources are pointing in the same direction, then you are onto something. Outliers aren't necessarily incorrect, but you have to be careful and consider why they are different from the rest. My study of the UFO phenomenon concludes thusly:

1. The phenomenon is more than likely real and not entirely the product of imagination or hoax, although there is plenty of that.

2. What we call UFOs and aliens are almost certainly the same as otherworldly beings (gods, angels, demons, faeiries, etc.) reported by previous civilizations.

3. Every civilization makes meaning of otherworldly visitors according to it's own norms, expectations, and means of understanding the world. For most of human history, religion was the default means by which people explained extraordinary things. Magic, myth, and folk beliefs also figured prominently. Since the Enlightenment, science has been rapidly supplanting religion and other previous means by which unknown phenomena are best explained. Therefore, explanations for UFOs and aliens today are usually based on technology and science, i.e. spacecraft containing advanced beings from other places in the cosmos instead of gods or demons. Or, secret scientific or military projects created by humans.

4. What the phenomenon is exactly may never be known in a tangible, obvious to everyone way. Instead, we will probably always see the phenomenon through these cultural and historical lenses and explain it accordingly. We already see the paradigm of explanation starting to evolve from flying saucers piloted by aliens to beings from other planes of existence entirely, an idea which is currently being postulated by the bleeding edge of physics.

As far as witnesses and authors go, I also evaluate them according to what they seem to be trying to accomplish. People who claim to have a single experience with something weird and don't seem to be trying to cash in or garner attention are probably more legitimate than someone who claims to be a super secret super soldier who was stationed on Mars or will take you to view UFOs for the low price of $1000.00 a head. Being a professional ufologist or claiming a lifetime of contacts doesn't automatically disqualify someone, but is one more fact to consider.

Someone whose story changes or becomes more elaborate over time is a big problem, For example, the Travis Walton witness who suddenly reversed course and claimed the whole thing was a hoax. All he really accomplished was outing himself as a liar, he was either lying back then or he is lying now. Or Jim Penniston's "binary code" which he received from the craft at Rendlesham, which is now being expanded into a series of books. The worst ones are people who just have a massive output of too good to be true material, such as Ed Walters and Billy Meier. It's hard to explain why these guys got all the good stuff in spades, and most others are lucky just to see lights in the sky.
 

Dejan Corovic

Celestial
2. What we call UFOs and aliens are almost certainly the same as otherworldly beings (gods, angels, demons, faeiries, etc.) reported by previous civilizations.

That's Jacques Vallee's thesis. I would give a mankind more credit then that. We don't need aliens to invent demons and goblins. As a species we more readily live in fantasy then in reality.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
That's Jacques Vallee's thesis. I would give a mankind more credit then that. We don't need aliens to invent demons and goblins. As a species we more readily live in fantasy then in reality.
I see parallels between mythology and our current descriptions. People use contemporary language to describe what they experience. Sometimes it’s hard to interpret in a later era because so much nuance is lost over time.

I’ve often thought that’s the case with those airship reports from the late 19th century. They may not have been intended to be taken seriously. We know Santa isn’t real, but a couple hundred years from now researchers may wonder
 
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