Hi guys, just for the hell of it I thought that I would attempt to start a thread in order to encourage a sensible discussion between the opposing sides of the ETH about the very best cases that there are and have ever been, in order to try and learn something instead of bludgeoning through logical impasses in cases in order to 'make them work for us' … or fit into our own preconceived ideas. [worth a try anyway] And to kick the thread off, I thought that I would suggest that we consider the old 1959 Father Gill Case! As a well confirmed member of the 'Pro-ETH-Club', and one that thoroughly enjoys seeing people on 'the other side of the fence' [so to speak] express just why they are of an opposing view of the veracity of some of my own preferred cases,.. I often have this nagging feeling of bewilderment about the reasons stated for the negative responses given with regards to the possibilities of certain testimonies being adequate proof of the probability of the ETH,...or even that I find often is the case that when what I consider pretty compelling evidence [usually in the form of reliable testimony] is presented by one of the excellent researchers that drop by these forums from time to time,[Karl 12 and SoulDrifter comes to mind] is almost always ignored by the 'heavy-sceptics' altogether! ...... Does this mean that there is no none-extraterrestrial explanation possible?...if so, then why are you still opposed to the ETH? .. which is of course a pure common sense question , or logic if you prefer, .. but then, as this simple query seems to be leading to an unfavourable conclusion to the said 'heavy-sceptics' , instead of even the merest contemplation of consideration that the mantra of 'it simply can't be true' … could in fact be wrong?... Out trots the silly "explanations" eg, Swamp Gas, Holograms in the desert, Flock of Pelicans and the perennial favourite king of the UFO's-Venus, etc, etc... and in this my all-time number one favourite [and imho, strongest] case... we get that old arch-enemy-of-the-truth Donald Menzel proclaiming a case of "bad eyesight and magically waving eye-lashes... and there's nothing to see here , move on!" [and yes that really did happen... he announced that theory with a straight face, and stood by it even when people on his own team said to him, "now steady on Don, that's too silly even for us!"]. … And then after fifty odd years of this being the official debunk to this grand old case, a modern young gun debunker [Martin Kottmeyer Gill Again: The Father Gill Case Reconsidered Martin Kottmeyer | MAGONIA ] decided to update the silliness by switching the 'official-explanation' to the whole saga being down to nothing more anomalous than "a miraculous squid-boat mirage" [yep! .. he did!] Of course, anyone that knows me will know how passionate I am about the weird and wonderful 1959 Father Gill Papua New Guinea Encounters and will know that I fetch it up periodically, because I just cant get it out of my head, and To be honest, I truly believe that a case such as this [that I am fairly sure that most people here will already be familiar with,] deserves a lot more thought put into the debunk , otherwise it must be considered the real deal, and that any further search for the smoking gun is pointless... because we've already had it for years and years! It wasn’t hyperbole. There are 38 witnesses. No other entity case comes close to that number. Twenty-five signed their names to a detailed report. Five of them were teachers and three were medical assistants. There was agreement the object was circular, had a wide base, a narrow upper deck, a type of legs, four human figures, and a shaft of blue light which shone upwards into the sky at an angle of 45°. It was visible for hours.... http://malcolmsanoma...-gills-own.html here's a snippet of the main witness himself,..check him out and see if you think he is a snakeoil-salesman? ....And if that wasn't enough,..there is also independent corroboratory testimony that 'unearthly flying vehicles' were uninhibitedly parading around the vicinity at the time in question! http://malcolmsanoma...ather.html#more Though I admit that this case is a fairly-unusual one, with an unlikely scenario....it is also a case that has consistently rebuffed any kind of reasonable debunking!...and many have tried over the course of the 54 years or so since the event. And i'll even go so far as to say that it has made monkeys out of the high-priests of UFO-debunkery ....Phil Klass reckoned that the whole thing was just a story made up by Gill and corroborated by all of the other folk designed to wind up Father Crutwell, a friend of Gill's ! ...And Donald Menzel proclaimed that, he and all of the 37 other witnesses that were present along with Father Gill, as well as the other seven or so independent witnesses that I know about from other parts of the region had been foolish enough to have been fooled by 'VENUS', !...even though Father Gill mentioned that he could also see Venus at the time!... ...and funniest of all was that Menzel asserts that the waving occupants of Venus the vehicle was "the witnesses own out of focus eyelashes!"... The list of attempts to debunk this case goes on and on,...with silly explanations varying from 'moving planets' to 'mirages of boats' etc ...but the plain fact is that no other explanation, and please correct me if i'm wrong, but no matter the unfathomable motivations of operations being carried out by the occupants of those strange flying craft's that were witnessed by so many respectable witnesses on those three nights in Papua 1959 fits the scenario as good as the ETH!... Cheers. GORT...KLAATU BARADA NIKTO.