Wars & Rumours of Wars

Discussion in 'Present & Current Events' started by Toroid, May 15, 2019.

  1. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Americans trapped behind enemy lines and our president is on vacation with his state department failing to do their duties...

    State Department delays six charter flights carrying 142 US citizens because of Taliban 'shake-down': Biden is accused of prioritizing his vacation over American lives in Afghanistan

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  2. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    PIERS MORGAN: As the 20th anniversary of 9/11 approaches, President Biden's shameful Afghanistan disaster has made America look weak, spineless, cowardly, and disloyal - it should cost him his presidency

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    This Saturday is the 20th anniversary of 9/11, one of the darkest days in American history. To mark the occasion, President Biden will travel to Ground Zero in New York where the Twin Towers were destroyed (top, right), to Virginia where a plane was flown into the Pentagon, and to a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania where Flight United 93 also crashed after an on-air battle between terrorists and hero passengers. This would be a sombre enough experience for any American President given that nearly 3,000 people were killed on that infamous day back in 2001 which represented a terrible failure of US intelligence. But now it will also be a moment of bitter shame and humiliation too, thanks to Biden's appalling mishandling of the US withdrawal from Afghanistan (bottom, right) and abject surrender to the very people who helped commit the attacks by harbouring the terrorists who carried them out. America's defeat to just 75,000 murderous medieval thugs is thus complete. And the full scale of that defeat is only slowly becoming depressingly clear.

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  3. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    It is much bigger than 75,000 thugs. What kind of leaders linger and spend millions a day on a fake war for 20 years?

    The U.S. does look stupid. Not because we are leaving, but because we stayed for 20 years and gained nothing.
     
  4. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Us being there or not is a different topic than how we got out.
     
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  5. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    No it isn't. It was bad politics all the way. The whole thing was a sham. The troops and logistics teams deserve to be commended, but the leadership and politics of this over the entire 20 years has been poor to say the least.
     
  6. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Yep two different animals, this could have had a neutral ending, meaning an organized withdrawal that left us on neutral terms with the Afghan people and got all of our people home safe...I'm sure the Afghans did not want us to leave but we can't stay forever...Instead we got a pathetic exit that was bungled and dishonest leaving the country in worse shape than before, giving the terrorist barbarians advanced weaponry and leaving Americans and allies behind enemy lines...Some people will see this in a different light of course, by believing all the media propaganda and/or defending the current decrepit president, but history will paint the picture proper reflecting on the reality of the situation...

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  7. platood

    platood Adept

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    11
    This was worse then Vietnam guys moving the goalposts don't make it better.
     
  8. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Israeli Firm Unveils Armed Robot to Patrol Volatile Borders

    Israeli Firm Unveils Armed Robot to Patrol Volatile Borders
    Volatile Borders
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    Israel Aerospace Industries' semi-autonomous four-wheel-drive "REX MKII" is seen at an IAI facility near the central Israeli city of Lod, Thursday, Sept. 9, 2021. Israel's state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries unveiled Monday a state-of-the-art unmanned vehicle their specialists said will be deployed alongside ground troops to assist in combat situations. (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)
    AP—Copyright 2021 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

    By ALON BERNSTEIN and JACK JEFFERY / Associated Press
    September 13, 2021 10:51 AM EDT

    LOD, Israel (AP) — An Israeli defense contractor on Monday unveiled a remote-controlled armed robot it says can patrol battle zones, track infiltrators and open fire. The unmanned vehicle is the latest addition to the world of drone technology, which is rapidly reshaping the modern battlefield.

    Proponents say such semi-autonomous machines allow armies to protect their soldiers, while critics fear this marks another dangerous step toward robots making life-or-death decisions.

    The four-wheel-drive robot presented Monday was developed by the state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries’ “REX MKII.”

    It is operated by an electronic tablet and can be equipped with two machine guns, cameras and sensors, said Rani Avni, deputy head of the company’s autonomous systems division. The robot can gather intelligence for ground troops, carry injured soldiers and supplies in and out of battle, and strike nearby targets.


    It is the most advanced of more than half a dozen unmanned vehicles developed by Aerospace Industries’ subsidiary, ELTA Systems, over the past 15 years.

    The Israeli military is currently using a smaller but similar vehicle called the Jaguar to patrol the border with the Gaza Strip and help enforce a blockade Israel imposed in 2007, after the tiny territory was seized by the Islamic militant group Hamas.

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    Gaza is home to 2 million Palestinians who have largely been locked in by the blockade, which is also supported to some extent by Egypt. The border area is the site of frequent protests and occasional attempts by Palestinian militants or desperate laborers to infiltrate into Israel.

    According to the Israeli army’s website, the semi-autonomous Jaguar is equipped with a machine gun and was designed to reduce soldiers’ exposure to the dangers of patrolling the volatile Gaza-Israel border. It is one of many tools, including drones armed with guided missiles, that have given the Israeli military vast technological superiority over Hamas.

    Unmanned ground vehicles are being increasingly used by other armies, including those of the United States, Britain and Russia. Their tasks include logistical support, the removal of mines and firing weapons.

    The tablet can control the vehicle manually. But many of its functions, including its movement and surveillance system, can also run autonomously.

    “With every mission, the device collects more data which it then learns from for future missions,” said Yonni Gedj, an operational expert in the company’s robotics division.

    Critics have raised concerns that robotic weapons could decide on their own, perhaps erroneously, to shoot targets. The company says such capabilities exist but are not being offered to customers.

    “It is possible to make the weapon itself also autonomous, however, it is a decision of the user today,” Avni said. “The maturity of the system or the user is not there yet.”

    Bonnie Docherty, a senior researcher from the arms division of Human Rights Watch, said such weapons are worrisome because they can’t be trusted to distinguish between combatants and civilians or make proper calls about the harm attacks may do to nearby civilians.


    “Machines cannot understand the value of human life, which in essence undermines human dignity and violates human rights laws,” Docherty said. In a 2012 report, Docherty, a lecturer at Harvard Law School, called for fully automated weapons to be banned by international law.

    The defense magazine Janes said the development of autonomous ground vehicles has lagged behind autonomous aircraft and boats because moving across land is far more complex than navigating water or air. Unlike the open ocean, vehicles have to deal with “holes in the road” and know exactly how much force to apply to overcome a physical obstacle, the report said.

    The technology in self-driving vehicles also has raised concerns. Electric car manufacturer Tesla, among other companies, has been connected to a series of fatal accidents, including an incident in Arizona in 2018 when a woman was hit by a car driving on autopilot.

    The Israeli drone vehicle is being showcased at this week’s Defense and Security System International arms trade show in London.
     
  9. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Blinken said there were still thousands of green card holders and over a hundred American citizens still stranded in Afghanistan...Is anyone in our government even trying to get our citizens home?...Who knows, but it seems clear that this current administration is worse than the previous for so many reasons including this Afghan debacle...

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  10. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    Who can make it better?
     
  11. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Thats a question best asked when we have an election and perhaps should have been asked by more people during the last election...The question that should be asked is who are going to bring our people home?...Or does that even matter to most Americans?...

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  12. AD1184

    AD1184 Noble

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    It is not clear why it was decided that America would first withdraw its military forces in Afghanistan to within a small perimeter in Kabul before its civilians and eligible Afghan evacuees. Was this due to the misplaced faith in the Afghan armed forces?

    By my simplistic expectations, I would have expected the US government to first instruct all of its civilian employees, and advise all of its private citizens in the country to make their way to an evacuation point, such as Kabul airport, by a deadline. When that deadline passed, it would then begin to withdraw its military forces to within the bounds of the airport for their own evacuation.
     
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  13. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    It is easy to criticise what is wrong with the world, I don't like to bad mouth our Presidents, current, or former. I especially do not like the bully methods that are used today between campaigns. Calling opponents names and giving them nasty stigmas is immature and mean and negative and I don't understand why people enjoy repeating it.

    Opposing candidates or parties, news media, fake news, and propaganda machines are all too quick to make a public spectacle any where they can, I don't see how any of that is helping.

    Smply put, our country cannot survive unless we pull the load together.

    Perhaps the best thing we can all say is- How can I can help?

    SO, NOW I ask of myself - What can I do to make this better?
    Scary thing is, I don't really have an answer....
     
  14. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Exactly, which is the most logical plan, apparently our government lacks logic along with a few other things...Leaving American citizens, allies, and green card holders to fend for themselves in a foreign country surrounded by enemies is unacceptable...

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  15. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    2,482
    The thing us, how do we know now, what is a real thing vs a whiney talking head spouting off an opinion? Too much nonsense, not enough facts.
     
  16. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Then perhaps you should do a little less whining, you seem intent on having an argument with me for whatever reason...Perhaps staying on topic would help...

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  17. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    No. I don't want to argue. AND I don't want to whine. I just feel that real facts are more important to the topic than distortion of them.

    For example, do we know how many of those who are still there, have chosen to be there? Do we know that those who want to come back are not some kind of spies?
    There is alot we don't know. That's all I am saying. And, I hope that is on topic.
     
  18. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Then stopped whining and look at the facts, I said this earlier in the thread, you seemed to have overlooked it, there are at least 100 american STILL trying to get out according to our lackluster official...There, some facts regurgitated for you...

    Blinken: About 100 Americans are still trying to leave Afghanistan

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  19. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    Yeah, I read that in a few different articles. Not just on this thread. Not arguing the article.

    I do think we will get them out, and the sooner the better.

    But let's not point fingers and make it a huge blame game. There is no proof that the Administration is better or worse. It is its own thing. Different world than it was a lready... outside of the oval office...

    Nobody knows how this could have been made better...
    But it will get better. It must get better.
    I believe in our administration holistically. Doesn't Matter who is in the hot seat... its a hot seat.
     
  20. AD1184

    AD1184 Noble

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    You were responding to one of Nivek's posts agreeing with mine, so:

    The evacuation finished on the 30th of August, but the Taliban had taken control of Kabul on the 15th. For 15 days, the evacuation was being completed from Kabul airport while the area outside the perimeter fence of the airport was wholly Taliban controlled. We know that evacuations continued in the time between the Taliban taking control of Kabul, and the US government finishing its evacuation operation. It was while screening incoming evacuees that 13 US Marines were killed by a suicide bomb. This graph from an AP article shows that the US evacuated more than 100,000 people from Kabul airport after the 17th of August:

    upload_2021-9-15_17-51-1.png

    The US military forces in the country of Afghanistan were contained within the perimeter of Kabul airport, and at the same time evacuees, American civilians, and US government employees were making their way to the airport to be evacuated. The US government clearly allowed this to happen, either intentionally, or by accident. US diplomats were evacuated by helicopter to Kabul airport on the day that the Taliban rode into Kabul. So it is reasonable to ask how and why this was allowed to happen. Why did the military withdrawal precede the civilian withdrawal?

    Kabul airport attack kills 60 Afghans, 13 US troops
    Timeline of U.S. Withdrawal from Afghanistan - FactCheck.org

    I made the point earlier in the thread that many private individuals still in the country shouldered some of the blame for their predicament in August. But some of these evacuees were civilian US government employees who were left stranded outside the military perimeter, like the diplomatic staff, for instance.

    According to this article, Biden national security adviser Jake Sullivan reveals that the Biden government was talked out of triggering an earlier evacuation by the Afghan government, as it could lead to a loss of confidence (even without an early evacuation, the Taliban took control of every province of the country in the ten days from the 6th to the 15th of August).

    Biden national security adviser says US didn’t evacuate Afghanistan sooner

    So although they delayed the evacuation of civilians, they did not delay the withdrawal of the military, leaving the civilians exposed when the Taliban took full control.
     
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