Discussion in 'Present & Current Events' started by Toroid, May 15, 2019.
Finland to apply to NATO ‘without delay’ as Russia threatens ‘retaliatory steps’
I'm having a tough time coming up with a scenario in which Russia could use a nuclear weapon and somehow be better off for having done so. Doesn't mean they don't do their own weird calculus and come up with a different scenario but I'd think there would have to be some specific incident they could hang their hat on. A false flag operation to the conspiracy minded is not out of the realm of possibility, but this has already cost them severely and Ukrainian defenses have only improved. The chances of a Russkie gotterdammerung isn't zero but what would provoke it?
Also, is Putin actually still in charge or has he already been quietly replaced for 'health reasons' ?
You know PF? ... I genuinely think that this could be it! apart from actually being invaded by the Chinese because they're defence capabilities have been so depleted in a year or so...what else could be the provocation for using these hitherto deadly ornaments other than the threat of them being ignored!?... This is in my opinion, an even more dangerous juncture of mankind's prospective future than the Cuban Missile crisis! .... Call me a wimp if you like... but i'm worried for the safety of my kids and grandkids!
The main advantage of Great Britain is that it's weapon systems are much more modern then Russian. British submarines are quieter, its anti-tank missiles are 2 generations ahead of Russian, British tanks have all the mod-cons like night vision, networking etc., while T-72 tanks don't even have night vision. Britan got x2 brand spanking new aircraft carriers, while Russian's last carrier blew itself up due to poor maintenance. Typhoon's missiles have longest range in the world and it can wipe out Russian planes without even getting close to them. Not to mention Brimstone missile of which Typhoon can fire probably about 16 at once and wipe out whole Russian armored columns. Etc. etc.
War in Ukraine had proven that one doesn't need more soldiers, one just needs better quality modern weapon systems. Probably Britain can defeat Russia completely on its own.
I would assume Finland has already made necessary preparations for this move given the circumstances?...
Russia CUTS power supplies to Finland: Moscow-run state electricity company says it will stop supplying Helsinki at midnight over 'payment issues' amid tensions over NATO
Russia will suspend electricity supplies to Finland this weekend, a supplier said on Friday as tensions rise over Helsinki's NATO bid amid Moscow's military campaign in Ukraine. 'We are forced to suspend the electricity import starting from May 14,' said RAO Nordic, a subsidiary of Russian state energy holding Inter RAO. 'RAO Nordic is not able to make payments for the imported electricity from Russia.' The firm is not directly faced with Western sanctions over the invasion into Ukraine, Montel News reports.
Turkey could be putting the brakes on Sweden and Finland's moves to join NATO.
Turkey not ‘positive’ about Finland, Sweden bids to join NATO, Erdoğan says
Turkey not ‘positive’ about Finland, Sweden bids to join NATO, Erdoğan says
Turkish president says he doesn’t want alliance to repeat ‘mistakes.’
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said Friday his country doesn’t like the idea of Finland and Sweden joining NATO.
Finland’s leaders announced Thursday their intention to pursue membership in the transatlantic military alliance “without delay.” Sweden is expected to follow suit in the coming days. But those moves, which come in response to Russia’s brutal war in Ukraine, have sparked criticism in Turkey, which has been a NATO member since 1952.
“Right now, when it comes to Sweden and Finland, we follow the developments but not with a positive opinion,” Erdoğan told reporters in Istanbul, adding that he wouldn’t want to repeat what he claims were “mistakes,” including the admission of Greece into NATO. Without evidence, Erdoğan also accused the Nordic countries of harboring terrorists — a charge he often lobs at domestic opponents and Western countries during disagreements.
The text of the North Atlantic Treaty, in article 10, states:
The Parties may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area to accede to this Treaty. Any State so invited may become a Party to the Treaty by depositing its instrument of accession with the Government of the United States of America. The Government of the United States of America will inform each of the Parties of the deposit of each such instrument of accession.
Accession is not by majority agreement, but by unanimous agreement of all parties to the treaty. So, if Turkey does not want Finland, and/or Sweden to join, then they will not join. Of course, Erdogan could be causing an obstruction simply as a diplomatic ploy for gaining a quid pro quo out of the US or the other NATO members.
NATO is said, by its cheerleaders, to be about defending freedom from autocracy. However, there is notably an autocrat, Recep Erdogan, leading NATO member Turkey.
Erdogan has enjoyed warmer relations with Putin than other NATO members in recent years, being accused of undermining the NATO agreement by purchasing the Russian S-400 air defence system, and Turkey's role in the F-35 fighter programme was axed as a result.
Turkey has, though, given meaningful assistance to Ukraine, also, in selling it the Bayraktar drones which have been extremely effective in destroying Russian military vehicles since the February invasion, and by blocking the Bosporus to the passage of Russian warships.
For years it seems Erdogan has been quibbling about Scandinavian countries’ alleged support for Kurdish militants and other groups which Turkey labels as terrorists...Whenever he gets the chance he throws this up in Europe's face and here now again he's tossing that rotten egg...Europe and the US will put a pacifier in his mouth and give him a few concessions to gain back his support for the new memberships, which was never really lost in the first place, Erdogan is just showing his arse...
Meet the Ukrainian nationalist group that’s training white supremacists
Finland has had a treaty with Russia since 1948 but when Finland joined the European Community it was replaced in the 90s with a new treaty...Given the circumstances today I would assume this treaty will be null and void...
Russia, Finland Sign Political Treaty
Finland and Russia signed a political treaty today that dissolved a 1948 agreement limiting Finland's role in Western Europe and obliging it to help defend the Soviet Union against attack.
The post-World War II treaty ruled out Finland's membership in the European Community and gave rise to the term "Finlandization" to describe a weak country accommodating itself to a strong one in order to maintain its autonomy.
The senior Russian official who signed today's accord said Russia had no problem with Finnish joining the EC.
"We will go along with it and support it," Deputy Prime Minister Gennadi Burbulis said at a news conference after signing the agreement with Finnish Prime Minister Esko Aho.
Finland's parliament is currently debating whether the country should apply for EC membership. A decision is expected within a few months.
The new agreement -- Russia's first political treaty with a Western country -- replaces the 1948 Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance, which required Finland to help defend the Soviet Union against any attack through Finnish territory.
Finland and Russia have now committed themselves not to use force against each other and to respect their 800-mile border. They also promise to respect the rights of each other's citizens on their territories.
The treaty is valid for 10 years and will automatically be renewed for five-year periods unless annulled by either party.
At the signing ceremony, Aho said Finland will aid Russia and participate in international projects aimed at alleviating its economic problems.
Aho and Burbulis also signed economic and regional trade agreements that call for development of border regions and the Russian areas around Murmansk, St. Petersburg and the autonomous region of Karelia.
Good catch, however it doesn't make the statement/opinion wrong, I happen to agree that it's a mistake for Finland and Sweden to join NATO at this time...It will likely escalate the problems already present...