Wars & Rumours of Wars

pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Two ways to look at it, both bad.

A state is given license to do as it wishes under threat of a nuclear response.

A state is confronted and potentially thwarted under threat of a nuclear response.

What is said for public consumption and what's really said behind closed doors are two different things and I just don't think we're in a position to really know anything other than not to take whatever is in the current news cycle at face value.

That said, this is scary ****. While this has been going on North Korea's been firing off missiles over Japan and we've sent the USS Ronald Reagan back to the area and have been conducting joint exercises with the Japanese and South Koreans. A test of a South Korean missile went embarrassingly badly for which a public apology was issued for 'causing worry'
 
Dejan Corovic

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
yeah, sure that nukes are nasty, but they are not all that what they were trumped up to be. They are more of "one step up" instead of being paradigm shift, if you want. As long as we are talking about nukes on battlefield, not about nukes above heavily populated areas.

First, there is no point of nuking an area that you later want to live in.

Second, front in the eastern Ukraine is, give or take, 1,000 km long and destructive diameter of a tactical nuke is about 1 km. So one would need 1,000 nukes to push back Ukrainians. Which, simply put, is unrealistic.

Third, nature of Ukrainian front is such that is very fluid, troupes on both sides constantly move around and there is no particular place with a high concentration of troupes. If you drop a nuke in one place, most likely you'll only affect 100-200 enemy soldiers, and few of your own. Even if you kill 100 enemy soldiers that's not going to change overall situation too much, when Ukrainian army is 700,000 soldiers strong.

Fourth, nukes, depending on how they detonate, really only kill with a blast of air pressure. The reason why so many people died in Hiroshima was because majority of houses were made of wood & paper and firestorms were started. Reinforced concrete buildings were very rare in Hiroshima and people inside them survived. Radiation is stopped by air within few hundred meters, within few seconds. That means that if troupes are dug in trenches or hiding in strong concrete buildings most of them will survive.
 
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nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
AD1184 said:
Russia's Crimea bridge has been knocked out by unknown actors:

www.thesun.co.uk

Putin's prized bridge left collapsed wreck after 'strike by special forces'

THIS is the moment President Zelensky taunted Vladimir Putin with a mock weather forecast after the despot’s favourite bridge was wrecked in a huge bomb blast. On Saturday, Putin’s £3.2…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk

This marks an escalation of the war, and I don't think it is a positive development.
Click to expand...

Fox News is reporting that the explosion was caused by a fuel tanker that caught fire from a fire caused by Russian shelling in the vicinity...

...

Kerch Bridge connecting Crimea to Russia on fire after possible fuel tank explosion​

An explosion and a fire were reported Saturday in the middle of the Kerch bridge, which connects Crimea with Russia, according to multiple reports.

Authorities suspended travel on the bridge after a fuel tank caught on fire, according to Russia’s RIA state news agency. Ukrainian media outlets reported an explosion was heard in the surrounding area at about 6 a.m. local time, Reuters reported.

"A fuel tank is on fire on one of the sections of the Crimean bridge," RIA state news agency said without further details.

Photos of the road-and-rail bridge on social media show part of the bridge was destroyed and plunged into the water below. Some videos show a large blaze and a column of black smoke.

The agency added: "The shipping arches are not damaged."

The reports of the fire occurred hours after Russia shelled the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, destroying several buildings and sending towering plumes of smoke into the sky.

Authorities did not indicate any casualties.

The Kerch Bridge was built after Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014. It was officially opened in 2018 to connect Crimea to Russia.

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AD1184

AD1184

Celestial
nivek said:
Fox News is reporting that the explosion was caused by a fuel tanker that caught fire from a fire caused by Russian shelling in the vicinity...

...

Kerch Bridge connecting Crimea to Russia on fire after possible fuel tank explosion​

An explosion and a fire were reported Saturday in the middle of the Kerch bridge, which connects Crimea with Russia, according to multiple reports.

Authorities suspended travel on the bridge after a fuel tank caught on fire, according to Russia’s RIA state news agency. Ukrainian media outlets reported an explosion was heard in the surrounding area at about 6 a.m. local time, Reuters reported.

"A fuel tank is on fire on one of the sections of the Crimean bridge," RIA state news agency said without further details.

Photos of the road-and-rail bridge on social media show part of the bridge was destroyed and plunged into the water below. Some videos show a large blaze and a column of black smoke.

The agency added: "The shipping arches are not damaged."

The reports of the fire occurred hours after Russia shelled the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, destroying several buildings and sending towering plumes of smoke into the sky.

Authorities did not indicate any casualties.

The Kerch Bridge was built after Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014. It was officially opened in 2018 to connect Crimea to Russia.

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Click to expand...
Kharkiv is not in the area of Crimea, but some 300 miles away. The Crimea bridge is firmly within Russian-held territory, 140-odd miles from the front, and there was not likely to be any Russian shelling in the area.

1665234530774.png


If you look at the video in the Sun article above, it appears that there was an explosion on the road bridge, on the side of the railway bridge (the Kerch bridge is a joint road-and-rail bridge). This explosion caused the collapse of at least two decks of the road bridge, and it has also caused several tanker cars on a train travelling on the rail bridge to catch fire. Thus disabling both the rail and road bridges, at least temporarily. Hopefully the Russians consider this damage to be easily reparable, if it was in fact Ukraine which caused the damage, and not a false-flag operation.

I don't see how it was in Ukraine's interest to take out the bridge at this point. The battlefield momentum seems to be on their side at the moment, according to reports. The threat to the bridge is something that they could hang over the Russians' heads, but cannot if it is taken out. A Ukrainian objective is to re-take Crimea (a stupid objective, in my opinion), but destruction of the bridge makes Russian retreat more difficult, giving them no choice but to dig their heels in further.
 
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nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
Heres an update...

Russia blames Ukrainian truck bomb for destroying its only bridge to Crimea: Putin's forces could be starved of resources after 'saboteurs' obliterated structure killing three - despite Kremlin's boasts of impenetrable defense including DOLPHINS​

Videos show the explosion rocking the Kerch Bridge linking the peninsula with the Russian mainland - despite Russian claims the bridge was protected with a maximum-security operation which included attack dolphins. The attack could cut supplies to Putin's forces as Ukraine makes more advances in the south towards Kherson. A section of the bridge has collapsed into the sea and seven oil tankers on a train caught fire in the blast. Long fuel lines are already forming in Crimea, despite Russian claims to have enough supplies to last two weeks. Although Kyiv has not claimed responsibility for the attack, one Ukrainian official boasted that 'Putin should be happy. Not everyone gets such an expensive birthday present' - a reference to the Russian president's 70th birthday yesterday. The bridge opened by Vladimir Putin in 2018 was supposed to be protected by land, sea and air - including a high-tech truck scanner for detecting explosives. However, images released show the truck suspected of causing the explosion being briefly searched by officials before being allowed on its way. There were suggestions Putin may address the nation on the bridge explosion amid fears he will unleash havoc on Ukraine. He has already hinted that he could use nuclear weapons in the war with Ukraine.

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Dejan Corovic

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
from the pictures that are available on few main media site it is clearly visible that only one of three bridge's sections is destroyed. Bridge has two lines for cars and one for rail. Only one line for cars is down, railway line is OK but it has burning train on it and the other car line is OK as well.

So, Russians can still supply their troupes as much as they like. Although they've got a huge bruise right in the middle of their face.
 
AD1184

AD1184

Celestial
nivek said:
Heres an update...

Russia blames Ukrainian truck bomb for destroying its only bridge to Crimea: Putin's forces could be starved of resources after 'saboteurs' obliterated structure killing three - despite Kremlin's boasts of impenetrable defense including DOLPHINS​

Videos show the explosion rocking the Kerch Bridge linking the peninsula with the Russian mainland - despite Russian claims the bridge was protected with a maximum-security operation which included attack dolphins. The attack could cut supplies to Putin's forces as Ukraine makes more advances in the south towards Kherson. A section of the bridge has collapsed into the sea and seven oil tankers on a train caught fire in the blast. Long fuel lines are already forming in Crimea, despite Russian claims to have enough supplies to last two weeks. Although Kyiv has not claimed responsibility for the attack, one Ukrainian official boasted that 'Putin should be happy. Not everyone gets such an expensive birthday present' - a reference to the Russian president's 70th birthday yesterday. The bridge opened by Vladimir Putin in 2018 was supposed to be protected by land, sea and air - including a high-tech truck scanner for detecting explosives. However, images released show the truck suspected of causing the explosion being briefly searched by officials before being allowed on its way. There were suggestions Putin may address the nation on the bridge explosion amid fears he will unleash havoc on Ukraine. He has already hinted that he could use nuclear weapons in the war with Ukraine.
Click to expand...
So the Ukrainians used a suicide bomber? Or they planted the bomb in a truck with an unwitting civilian driver and blew it up?
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
AD1184 said:
So the Ukrainians used a suicide bomber? Or they planted the bomb in a truck with an unwitting civilian driver and blew it up?
Click to expand...

Well that link is also reporting a wave just before the blast and speculation that a drone packed with explosives or a boat could have been the cause of the explosion...There seems to be some mixed reports depending on who's doing the reporting...

...
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below

Putin's 'miracle' bridge in flames: As a huge explosion blows apart vital link between Russia and seized region of Crimea, Ukraine celebrates... by issuing commemorative postage stamps​

It is a picture that shows the stunning devastation caused to the only rail and road link between Russia and Crimea, after a huge blast left a fuel train in flames and caused the collapse of spans of the roadway below. The massive fireball exploded on the 12-mile Kerch Bridge shortly after 6am yesterday, striking a hugely-symbolic blow against Vladimir Putin while prompting jubilation in Ukraine. The Russian president ordered the bridge to be built in 2014 after his illegal annexation of Crimea - the first step in his assault on Ukrainian terrain. He declared it was a 'miracle' after driving a truck across to open the structure four years ago.

As a huge explosion blows apart vital link between Russia and seized Crimea, Ukraine
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nivek

nivek

As Above So Below

The State Duma called the state of emergency on the Crimean bridge a declaration of war without rules ​

The long-announced terrorist attack on the Crimean bridge is no longer just a challenge, but a declaration of war without rules, Oleg Morozov, deputy of the State Duma from United Russia, told RIA Novosti.

The National Anti-Terrorism Committee earlier reported that a truck exploded on the Krymsky Bridge in the early morning of Saturday, causing the fire of seven fuel tanks of the train. There was a partial collapse of two automobile spans of the bridge. The arch over the land part of the bridge is not damaged, the NAC indicated. According to preliminary information from the regional authorities, there were no casualties as a result of the incident.

"An undisguised terrorist war is being waged against us. Moreover, the long-announced terrorist attack on the Crimean bridge is no longer just a challenge, it is a declaration of war without rules,” he said.

Morozov added that in the absence of an "adequate" response, such incidents would occur more often. "If we remain silent in response and do not give an adequate response, then such attacks will multiply," he said.

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nivek

nivek

As Above So Below

Russian governors threaten missile attacks on Ukraine's 'big cities' in revenge for Crimea bridge explosion - as top Putin propagandist calls for total war and return to brutal Stalinist-era operations ​

Alluding to an enemy within, Solovyov called for a return of the notorious Stalin-era SMERSH counter-intelligence to crush all internal opposition to a full-scale war against Ukraine. SMERSH, whose motto was 'Death to Spies', was a conglomeration of counterintelligence agencies used by Stalin to root out and obliterate those trying to subvert his regime during and after World War II. A pair of Russian governors meanwhile spoke of a 'healthy desire to seek revenge' and warned that Ukraine will suffer more rocket attacks on its large cities following the explosion. Russia's deputy PM this morning deployed a team of divers to the bridge, where they will spend the day inspecting its foundations and searching for evidence.



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AD1184

AD1184

Celestial
nivek said:
I think someone needs to tell this guy to shut the F#&% up or lose his precious US funding...

'Today was mostly sunny, unfortunately it was cloudy over Crimea': President Zelensky TAUNTS Putin over Crimea humiliation with a tongue-in-cheek weather report after 'Ukrainian special forces blasted bridge with explosive-laden boats or drone'​


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Click to expand...
These are official responses of the Ukrainian government to events:


View: https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176


View: https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578773534783852544


View: https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1579024237473714176


It is disappointing that these communications form part of the historic record of important events for future generations to see. I feel embarrassed for the age in which we live.
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
AD1184 said:
These are official responses of the Ukrainian government to events:


View: https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176


View: https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578773534783852544


View: https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1579024237473714176


It is disappointing that these communications form part of the historic record of important events for future generations to see. I feel embarrassed for the age in which we live.
Click to expand...


x...3

Such pathetic immature behavior from official government sources in the middle of a war that could engulf the entire world in a nuclear holocaust, its sickening...

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pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
France's Macron: we must speak with prudence when commenting on risk of nuclear conflict

France's Macron: we must speak with prudence when commenting on risk of nuclear conflict​

Reuters
France's Macron makes New Year address

French President Emmanuel Macron is seen on a screen as he delivers his New Year's speech to the nation at the Elysee Palace in Paris, France, December 31, 2021. REUTERS/Christian Hartmann

PRAGUE, Oct 7 (Reuters) - French President Emmanuel Macron said "we must speak with prudence", as he responded to earlier comments by U.S. President Joe Biden in which Biden said there was a risk of nuclear "Armageddon" in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
"We must speak with prudence when commenting on such matters," Macron told reporters at the end of a European Union summit in Prague.
Biden had said earlier that Russian President Vladimir Putin's threat to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine had brought the world closer to "Armageddon" than at any time since the Cold-War Cuban Missile Crisis.
 
Dejan Corovic

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
I have an idea.

If we must have a nuclear war, lets have it for a useful and practical reason, not because of Russia and Ukraine.

I think the right reason for nuclear war would be for whole world to adopt metric units and dump those unwieldy imperial units.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Biden is carelessly pandering to his electorate due to the upcoming mid terms and this talk is deflection. I'd hope the Russians see it as such - they make their own statements for public consumption. But we're talking about nuclear weapons and this is foolish insanity.

My guess as to the most likely response is a stand off conventional strike against a major Ukrainian city. Who the hell knows.
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
Zelensky asked for this, mocking Russia a couple days ago, now he's whinging...

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'Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine off the face of the earth', says Zelensky as missiles hit multiple cities, causing carnage across the country as Vladimir takes revenge for Crimea bridge blast ​

Vladimir Putin unleashed revenge strikes across the whole of Ukraine this morning as missiles rained down on the capital Kyiv, the central cities of Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia and even far-western Lviv after an explosion crippled the Kerch Bridge at the weekend. At least eight people were killed and 25 wounded in the Kyiv strikes alone as videos and images from the city showed fires burning and dead bodies lying in the streets. Footage from Dnipro showed what appeared to be an apartment block in flames, suggesting a high number of civilian casualties. President Volodymyr Zelensky, speaking as the strikes were ongoing, accused Russia of 'trying to wipe us off the face of the earth' as his defence minister vowed Ukraine's courage wound never be broken by 'terrorist' strikes. The bombardment appears to be the opening salvo of a revenge operation that Putin pledged to carry out at the weekend after an explosion partially destroyed a bridge connecting occupied Crimea to Russia. The Russian despot has blamed the strike on Ukrainian special forces and described it as 'terrorism', though Kyiv has not claimed responsibility.

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