What Kind of believer are you?

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
This Thread, Is a result of a lot of thought. At one point, I asserted There were two kinds of Believers. Those who Fear The unknown and Those who embrace it. It sounds good on paper for context. But It's been stuck in my mind all day. You cant assign something just two possible points of view.

A point of view could be as unique as a fingerprint. Therefore, there must be infinite kinds of believers.

This thread is for those brave enough or just willing, To state Their Views on Extraterrestrial Life, Ufo Research, The whole, "Alien Thing".

My thoughts on it, I believe, Fully that Extraterrestrial life is a thing, I believe Extraterrestrials may have even visited us or developed our genomes or even influenced civilization, as much as the concept of intelligent design could allow. I believe this for various reasons.

I don't believe every Case of Abduction reported to be legitimate, I believe most of them in fact, Are falsified. With that said, Over generations, Many hundreds of thousands of cases have been reported and continue to be reported worldwide. So, WIthout a doubt, something is occurring, I believe it to be Extraterrestrial in origin.

I don't believe The Ashtar empire and Galatic high council are real things, I believe a lot of things we think we know about aliens are created by Authors. A lot of people don't even realize that Many of the Best Abductions stories, Were told by people who were already accomplished, Authors. "That is a red flag if nothing else" I am critical of every aspect of a reported case Because it would be foolish not to be. That's the kind of believer I have become over the years.

I make this Theard. Because I realize, There Really are Many different kinds of believers. From The Reserved To the Exotic,, And We all belong ...
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
I am certain to very high degree that aliens are continuously visiting Earth.

Primary reason for that is that an average Sun like star in Milky Way galaxy is 2 billion years older than Sun. So, given the tiny probabilities with large numbers it is highly likely that there are few civilisations that are technologically few million years ahead of us. We are masters of electromagnetism, but we shy away when it comes to general relativity which is essential for inter-stellar travel. A civilisation that is few million years ahead of us would master general relativity in the same way that we mastered electromagnetism.

Another strong reason to believe that civilisations that mastered general relativity are visiting Earth is human ignorance. Human ignorance is brilliant investigative tool. There are only three choices with UFO witnesses. They can be: trustworthy, delusional or plain lairs. If we agree that 99% of UFO witnesses are scientifically ignorant ( which most regular folks are ) then knowledge of science can help an investigator to immediately eliminate delusional and plain liars witnesses.

In a normal life it is very difficult to uncover lairs and delusional people because they would be lying by using "common sense". Lair or delusional person would always lie using something that you and him consider common knowledge. But most of scientific knowledge lies so far outside of common knowledge that lairs/delusional people simply don't dare laying about something they don't understand for fear of being caught out. If one carefully listens for scientific effects mentioned in UFO witness testimony he can easily distinguish which witnesses are true and which are not. From that point on it is just a question of building a statistical picture based on these rare and ordinarily impossible scientific effects.

Unfortunately for sceptics, that picture built on both physical evidence and observation of rare scientific effects leans towards visitations by a "nearby" technologically advanced civilisation. This is not a proof by itself, but it is strong indication that it is worth spending resources because payback could be an early discovery and adaptation of relativistic technologies. In other words, its smart to spy on aliens in an attempt to reverse engineer their knowledge for the benefit of our own species. Spending small amount on scientific study of UFOs can save us few hundreds or even thousands of years in becoming capable of travelling to the stars.
 
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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
There are only three choices with UFO witnesses. They can be: trustworthy, delusional or plain lairs.

I think that's a harsh way to put it. Some people just don't know what they saw and have misidentified something more common. The circumstances under which they see it, maybe caught them by surprise, etc just makes them truthful in that they saw something and simply mistaken. I agree there are far too many frauds and kooks. There are an awful lot of people who have convinced themselves one way or the other - just planted a flag - who see everything in relevance to their pet theory.
There were two kinds of Believers. Those who Fear The unknown and Those who embrace it.

Believers come in many forms, hard to spot them sometimes. Without Belief the amount of Total Fraud would be significantly reduced.

strong indication that it is worth spending resources

Agreed. Worth taking an organized look but the general consensus is that the US Government will pay for it. Why do we have only ONE billionaire willing to get involved? You'd think there might be other notable names that would kick in a few bucks. Too busy creating sub-orbital stunts of questionable value I suppose.

When it comes to these things you don't know until you do. Skepticism doesn't mean knee-jerk disbelief, it means not jumping to a conclusion lacking tangible facts. It means just taking whatever it may be one at a time and not using it to support Belief, even if Belief is couched in terms like 'working theory' and so forth. That AWWSAP BASS study - if you can take Skinwalkers at the Pentagon at face value - sounds like the most comprehensive one to date. Talking about Battelle is ancient history, although that data is supposed to have been included in their multiple databases. The authors are saying exactly the same thing I am - see where the data goes without confirmation bias.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
When it comes to these things you don't know until you do. Scepticism doesn't mean knee-jerk disbelief, it means not jumping to a conclusion lacking tangible facts.

What I'm saying "where is smoke, there is probably a fire" ( or something like that ).

What is annoying about sceptics is that they very often don't study problem all the way to the end ( like that guy did great job of analysing 3 axes on tick-tack FLIR gimbal, but there was 4th axis he didn't know about ) and don't have adequate knowledge to study the problem, but they throw in their confusion hat in anyway. Now, when important facts are missing its easy to play smart guy and pretend that you are the only one talking sense. But thing is that overall statistical picture points towards "the fire", not towards "the smoke" and that scepticism is just pulling us backwards from the united effort.

Remember here, if we can reverse engineer this tech our next generation can travel to the starts. That's the most important point of all the UFO research, not the melodrama of otherworldly encounters.

Or maybe more clearly, effort to study UFOs should be both serious and diversified, going for multidisciplinary approach so that as many facets of the mosaic can be joined into one big picture. But who am I to say that, because I've done tons of homework and I've formed my opinion based on that effort.

Uhhh, I'm already missing @Thomas R Morrison here. Let him rest in piece.
 
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Shadowprophet

Truthiness
What I'm saying "where is smoke, there is probably a fire" ( or something like that ).

What is annoying about sceptics is that they very often don't study problem all the way to the end ( like that guy did great job of analysing 3 axes on tick-tack FLIR gimbal, but there was 4th axis he didn't know about ) and don't have adequate knowledge to study the problem, but they throw in their confusion hat in anyway. Now, when important facts are missing its easy to play smart guy and pretend that you are the only one talking sense. But thing is that overall statistical picture points towards "the fire", not towards "the smoke" and that scepticism is just pulling us backwards from the united effort.

Remember here, if we can reverse engineer this tech our next generation can travel to the starts. That's the most important point of all the UFO research, not the melodrama of otherworldly encounters.

Or maybe more clearly, effort to study UFOs should be both serious and diversified, going for multidisciplinary approach so that as many facets of the mosaic can be joined into one big picture. But who am I to say that, because I've done tons of homework and I've formed my opinion based on that effort.

Uhhh, I'm already missing @Thomas R Morrison here.
I'll always Miss Thomas, He was a Good Guy, Often misunderstood.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
What I'm saying "where is smoke, there is probably a fire" ( or something like that ).

What is annoying about sceptics is that they very often don't study problem all the way to the end ( like that guy did great job of analysing 3 axes on tick-tack FLIR gimbal, but there was 4th axis he didn't know about ) and don't have adequate knowledge to study the problem, but they throw in their confusion hat in anyway. Now, when important facts are missing its easy to play smart guy and pretend that you are the only one talking sense. But thing is that overall statistical picture points towards "the fire", not towards "the smoke" and that scepticism is just pulling us backwards from the united effort.

Remember here, if we can reverse engineer this tech our next generation can travel to the starts. That's the most important point of all the UFO research, not the melodrama of otherworldly encounters.

Or maybe more clearly, effort to study UFOs should be both serious and diversified, going for multidisciplinary approach so that as many facets of the mosaic can be joined into one big picture. But who am I to say that, because I've done tons of homework and I've formed my opinion based on that effort.

Uhhh, I'm already missing @Thomas R Morrison here.
I tangled with him because of what I saw as blatant confirmation bias
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Good a place as any. Some weirdness on my way to work at 0545
upload_2022-2-17_8-7-40.jpeg
upload_2022-2-17_8-8-11.jpeg

Just a plane but quite bright and startling, recognition lights not immediately visible. You see the engines at the right angle they look mighty strange. This shows how wonderful an iphone is in this arena. If I didn’t already suspect a plane and was ready to Believe I’d be telling you I saw ET. That’s what the nice folks across the river in Pine Bush have been saying- so often it’s a financial component for small business. Like Roswell
 

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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Normally when I post pictures I reduce them in size by 50-70%. These are straight off my iPhone 8 with no editing or reduction and you can see how fabulous they are. Full moon and I spot a really really bright large dot in the sky. I bet a dollar that @wwkirk has seen exactly the same thing further south - his area is in the confluence of several major airports and things like that are extremely common and probably go unnoticed. Up here in the Hudson Valley where it's allowed to get dark at night most of us are used to this but it isn't nearly as common. The traffic from SWF across the river and the local Mid Hudson Regional Airport has only increased in the 25 years I've lived in this house.

Soon as I went over a hill and that field was off to my right with an unobstructed view I was able to get the phone off my belt and take some shots. The truck is covered in a layer of what looks like chocolate milk from all the salt, filth and flarn on the winter roadways. For you photo analysts that big pole looking thing is my truck antenna and the moon was full. Again, the recognition lights weren't visible for quite some time.

Belief

I really think this is an excellent example. I knew what I was seeing at the time and yet some adrenaline pumped while pawing at my phone. Transport me to the other side of the river to say, Pine Bush, where it's sparsely populated with very little artificial light at night and I would see the same thing. But no, over there you have a couple of common themes happening. First is Belief. There has been so much stuff printed and on tv about 'the Hudson Valley wave' it has either directly or subconsciously conditioned people to NOT see what I saw. Thank you very much Phil Imbrogno a.k.a liar liar pants on fire. In fact it became a 'UFO hot spot' and they had so many people collecting in that small bump in the road that they had to post signs and threaten fines because people were parking all over public roads at night in odd places peering at the sky it caused traffic hazards. They are looking at exactly the same aircraft traffic patterns I am, exactly the same phenomena and yet Belief causes them to draw a different conclusion. Incidentally, those patterns include extremely large military aircraft that do not look or behave like commercial traffic. Guess when the local UFO reports in the Hudson Valley started back in the 80s? When that heavy lift air wing moved in - that's when.

Context again. This is not far from the area where those stupid kids attached road flares to balloons and suddenly we had aviation experts on TV pointing to the sky all wide eyed. Witnesses described their ooglieness and wiggles while observing ET - except it was goddamned hoaxing road flares. Also in that area in 2013 (I think) there was a for-real advertising blimp that scared the water out of a number of people. Those are very rare but do happen.

Final component is $$ - typical of ufology. I posted pics of the Pine Bush UFO Fair last year. Cool little street fair. But you can't go there and speak anything other than pure Belief - nor would I want to. It's fun. The local businesses depend on that wee fair and Belief to bring in much needed revenue - the same as Gettysburg does with ghost hunters. Guaranteed you talk to a local from Gettysburg who has a tourism based business and you will not fail to find a ghost.

The reason I keep looking is that one day maybe I'll see something I can't identify. Just don't want to waste my time or anybody else's without a bit of internal review.
 

Todd Feinman

Show us the satellite pics...
I don't consider myself a "Believer" I actually consider myself a "knower". Sounds smug, but it ain't. I was where many folks with an interest in UFOs and unusual things were --before my first experience. I picked up UFO articles now and again and had an interest in other esoteric things; I thought there was likely something to the phenomenon as it had been reported for so long by so many people, but was skeptical about abductions, etc. I was actually where Pigfarmer and others are now --but I didn't have the book knowledge about UFOs Pigfarmer and others have; I was more interested in the occult, which I studied in depth. All of that changed in 2010. With the extremely bizarre attendant circumstances around the first experience, and then the second experience, I feel I don't have a choice now but to believe that UFOs represent an non-human, advanced intelligence. My first and second experiences were further reified by spending several years scouring the newspaper databases --and finding experiences nearly identical to my own. I don't see any possible way to explain what I have seen as natural phenomena or human technology --in fact the experiences seemed deliberately designed to prove the extraordinary nature of what I was witnessing. The nature of the experiences makes for an extremely unbelievable and unlikely story --not something I would have written to convince skeptics (I could have come up with a much more believable UFO encounter if I had meant to deceive)--but events happened just as I say. I also have two corroborating cases backing me up now of folks who also saw the same objects--including descriptions by those witnesses exactly matching my own. I also found sightings of the same or similar objects by Leroy Chiao and observers in Nevada in the '50s. I've lost my two best friends over my experiences, but I refuse to deny what I have seen. I will be thinking about these experiences on my death bed, I am sure.
I think it is funny that most UFO researchers don't spend time interested in my experiences; the first is quite unique and I know connect the structured type of "saucers" reported everywhere and photographed at McMinnville with the glowing objects in formation that have been seen in the past. I also think that the appearance from McMinnville in 2010 --60 years to the day or nearly so from when the photo was take --is also meaningful --and my experience uniquely occurred during the UFO festival in McMinnville. Remember that photo was on the front of Time magazine when I got back to work after the experience.
The second experience was equally amazing, but not quite as dramatic.
Pay for a lie detector test! I am happy to take any number of them.
 
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Kchoo

At Peace.
I believe, on my own experiences, we are of Extra Terrestrial Origin.
I believe we are all infinite beings.
I believe there is no limit to what we can do.
I believe our original species dominates the universe in technology and ego.
I believe our presence on Earth began as a failed experiment, but we are re evolving.
I believe our development is still in infancy, and remains stunted, but we are catching on and catching up.
I believe the universe still overpowers us and our original species, and always will because we are just a component of it.
I believe we can't imagine or design anything new as we can only acknowledge what is already is there. It is simply about recognizing what already exists.
 
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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I don't consider myself a "Believer" I actually consider myself a "knower". Sounds smug, but it ain't. I was where many folks with an interest in UFOs and unusual things were --before my first experience. I picked up UFO articles now and again and had an interest in other esoteric things; I thought there was likely something to the phenomenon as it had been reported for so long by so many people, but was skeptical about abductions, etc. I was actually where Pigfarmer and others are now --but I didn't have the book knowledge about UFOs Pigfarmer and others have; I was more interested in the occult, which I studied in depth. All of that changed in 2010. With the extremely bizarre attendant circumstances around the first experience, and then the second experience, I feel I don't have a choice now but to believe that UFOs represent an non-human, advanced intelligence. My first and second experiences were further reified by spending several years scouring the newspaper databases --and finding experiences nearly identical to my own. I don't see any possible way to explain what I have seen as natural phenomena or human technology --in fact the experiences seemed deliberately designed to prove the extraordinary nature of what I was witnessing. The nature of the experiences makes for an extremely unbelievable and unlikely story --not something I would have written to convince skeptics (I could have come up with a much more believable UFO encounter if I had meant to deceive)--but events happened just as I say. I also have two corroborating cases backing me up now of folks who also saw the same objects--including descriptions by those witnesses exactly matching my own. I also found sightings of the same or similar objects by Leroy Chiao and observers in Nevada in the '50s. I've lost my two best friends over my experiences, but I refuse to deny what I have seen. I will be thinking about these experiences on my death bed, I am sure.
I think it is funny that most UFO researchers don't spend time interested in my experiences; the first is quite unique and I know connect the structured type of "saucers" reported everywhere and photographed at McMinnville with the glowing objects in formation that have been seen in the past. I also think that the appearance from McMinnville in 2010 --60 years to the day or nearly so from when the photo was take --is also meaningful --and my experience uniquely occurred during the UFO festival in McMinnville. Remember that photo was on the front of Time magazine when I got back to work after the experience.
The second experience was equally amazing, but not quite as dramatic.
Pay for a lie detector test! I am happy to take any number of them.

You saw something you can't explain and can't put it back in the bag. I actually envy you - I'd love to have that sort of experience. At least I think so. No need to take a lie detector test as long as you run your internal audit routine regularly, I don't think that would convince anyone. A lot of people don't want their world view disturbed.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I don't consider myself a "Believer" I actually consider myself a "knower". Sounds smug, but it ain't.

Doesn't sound smudge at all, belief is a double edged sword, it can keep open possibilities within one's own personal world however belief can also become a box, confining one or limiting one's open mind into a narrow construct framed around a particular belief or ideal...

...
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
I don't consider myself a "Believer" I actually consider myself a "knower". Sounds smug, but it ain't. I was where many folks with an interest in UFOs and unusual things were --before my first experience. I picked up UFO articles now and again and had an interest in other esoteric things; I thought there was likely something to the phenomenon as it had been reported for so long by so many people, but was skeptical about abductions, etc. I was actually where Pigfarmer and others are now --but I didn't have the book knowledge about UFOs Pigfarmer and others have; I was more interested in the occult, which I studied in depth. All of that changed in 2010. With the extremely bizarre attendant circumstances around the first experience, and then the second experience, I feel I don't have a choice now but to believe that UFOs represent an non-human, advanced intelligence. My first and second experiences were further reified by spending several years scouring the newspaper databases --and finding experiences nearly identical to my own. I don't see any possible way to explain what I have seen as natural phenomena or human technology --in fact the experiences seemed deliberately designed to prove the extraordinary nature of what I was witnessing. The nature of the experiences makes for an extremely unbelievable and unlikely story --not something I would have written to convince skeptics (I could have come up with a much more believable UFO encounter if I had meant to deceive)--but events happened just as I say. I also have two corroborating cases backing me up now of folks who also saw the same objects--including descriptions by those witnesses exactly matching my own. I also found sightings of the same or similar objects by Leroy Chiao and observers in Nevada in the '50s. I've lost my two best friends over my experiences, but I refuse to deny what I have seen. I will be thinking about these experiences on my death bed, I am sure.
I think it is funny that most UFO researchers don't spend time interested in my experiences; the first is quite unique and I know connect the structured type of "saucers" reported everywhere and photographed at McMinnville with the glowing objects in formation that have been seen in the past. I also think that the appearance from McMinnville in 2010 --60 years to the day or nearly so from when the photo was take --is also meaningful --and my experience uniquely occurred during the UFO festival in McMinnville. Remember that photo was on the front of Time magazine when I got back to work after the experience.
The second experience was equally amazing, but not quite as dramatic.
Pay for a lie detector test! I am happy to take any number of them.

There are quite a few people who had seen UFOs in this forum and other forums. They join forums to find answers.
 

Todd Feinman

Show us the satellite pics...
There are quite a few people who had seen UFOs in this forum and other forums. They join forums to find answers.
I think it is important to go to historic accounts to get some context for what is going on, and that is where I looked for answers. I've also been on Fortean Forum, Metabunk, ATS, and others. I've come to the conclusion that it is pretty much a waste of time trying to convince skeptics or those who have not had experiences themselves. I am certainly interested in other people's experiences, and I have met a lot of perfectly honest people who have also had amazing experiences with UFOs or who have provided knowledge about UFO history, including my acquaintance who had interaction with General Craigie as a child. Both the circumstances of my experiences, the accounts going back to the 19th century, and individuals I've met in person, only serve to reinforce things for me. I was gung ho about the reality of UFOs long before folks at the Pentagon came out; that was just a nice end to a decade of arguing with skeptics on forums. I am left with no other real alternative, but that UFOs are an advanced non-human technology. And, the best explanation for their behavior in modern terms would be some kind of sentient, advanced alien AI, operating in the form of highly advanced objects, involved in long-term, asymmetric, interaction and contact with us.
What I have found surprising and even a bit funny, to be honest, are the researchers who have never seen them for themselves, but are so incredibly passionate about their reality --just based on the evidence others have provided, and also the skeptics and scientists who refuse to listen to witness accounts and rely on the worst evidence to reinforce their failing paradigm! For them, any sighting must be a mundane object --and those they can't identify go into the "inevitably will be debunked" pile! Gosh... When investigators go to a crime scene to figure out what has happened --they interview witnesses! They wouldn't just rely on some blurry photo taken at the scene to prove their case in court! Jeez.
 
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Todd Feinman

Show us the satellite pics...
You saw something you can't explain and can't put it back in the bag. I actually envy you - I'd love to have that sort of experience. At least I think so. No need to take a lie detector test as long as you run your internal audit routine regularly, I don't think that would convince anyone. A lot of people don't want their world view disturbed.
I hope you do get to see them!! It could still happen in your lifetime.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I hope you do get to see them!! It could still happen in your lifetime.

All you have to do is look ! That's why I take pics of planes, helicopters, and any other weird thing I see.

In other arenas I've done a complete 180. Absolutes are a haven for the insecure. You have to be able to play Devil's Advocate with yourself
 

Sheltie

Fratty and out of touch.
I first became interested in the possibility of visitations by intelligent alien life when I was about 13. I always maintained a positive Steven Speilberg kind of outlook on aliens, believing they were here to help us and that they could protect us from things like nuclear war or various other potential catastrophes.

In recent months I've been exploring some of the more negative stories about aliens, such as the Lovette Abduction Case;

There are a lot of dark, violent stories and descriptions of aliens encounters out there. There are cases where people were allegedly killed or mutilated. And, in all fairness, there are still a lot of very positive stories.

I guess where I'm going with this post is that I'm less likely to embrace and welcome the belief than I once was.
 
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