What's wrong with a Belief in God?

[Kchoo]

A healing wound is the nearest comparison. Equally marvelous.

We are on the mend.

Thats a perfect assessment of humanity.

Just hope we arent too late to reep the benefits...

Old habits are the scorched earth policy. My employer requires me to drive to the office every day to write code...burning 15 gallons of fuel a week. Even though I have an ULEV it is contributing to the problem....

 

[pepe]

Thats a perfect assessment of humanity.

Just hope we arent too late to reep the benefits...

Old habits are the scorched earth policy. My employer requires me to drive to the office every day to write code...burning 15 gallons of fuel a week. Even though I have an ULEV it is contributing to the problem....

I think we are going all the way to the top.

 

[pepe]

Expanse, paracast and babble.

I'm literally awash wit it.

 

[Toroid]

When we overcome “present” challenges, the "future" will be better.

Welcome aboard.

 

[pepe]

I like to think we are all in agreement as to our direction of progress as moving forward but we are either going sideways or backward.

Are our creatures evolving. If so then we were they and they will be another wave of us. When we are long gone and ready to repay the debt by watching over them from a distance as we know what such a truth could damage. Life itself would stagnate to an automonous state .

Slaves to the rhythm is no freedom.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Right, you are guys, This was a discussion about beliefs in God, I get sidetracked a lot, My bad.
It's literally in my personality, I don't do it intentionally, It's like my brain just changes topics at random, I've always been that way.

 

[Rick Hunter]

My employer requires me to drive to the office every day to write code...burning 15 gallons of fuel a week. Even though I have an ULEV it is contributing to the problem....

How many miles a week are you driving? I drive 53 miles each way to work, and I'm burning a little less than that in my 1998 Mazda 626 with 250k on the clock.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

Yeah, religion is just a business masqueraded as, uhmmm, spirituality.

Basically religion sells you forgetable promisses and charges a good mony for it.

Catholic church publishes it's accounts every year. I remember reading that US Catholic church, according to that audit, was workth $40B, when Apple's capitalisation was $50B. Not bad for institutioin that is based on stolen and recucled folk farytales.

It might be interesting to learn how much money are other religions are worth, like Budist, Muslims, Hindu etc.

If you had any experience in marketing, you would easily see that religion is pure marketing, of course, only this time, without and usefull product or service.

Actually, there used to be a legend going around on internet, that MENSA institude did a general study of human intelligence, by all categories like profession, age, gender, race etc. MENSA found that 70% of people who are religious have IQ bellow average. Now that's not a problem. Problem are those 30% who are above the average. It just shows that top 30% is slowly but surely milking those 70% of less lucky ones.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Yeah, religion is just a business masqueraded as, uhmmm, spirituality.

Basically religion sells you forgetable promisses and charges a good mony for it.

Catholic church publishes it's accounts every year. I remember reading that US Catholic church, according to that audit, was workth $40B, when Apple's capitalisation was $50B. Not bad for institutioin that is based on stolen and recucled folk farytales.

It might be interesting to learn how much money are other religions are worth, like Budist, Muslims, Hindu etc.

If you had any experience in marketing, you would easily see that religion is pure marketing, of course, only this time, without and usefull product or service.

Actually, there used to be a legend going around on internet, that MENSA institude did a general study of human intelligence, by all categories like profession, age, gender, race etc. MENSA found that 70% of people who are religious have IQ bellow average. Now that's not a problem. Problem are those 30% who are above the average. It just shows that top 30% is slowly but surely milking those 70% of less lucky ones.

Here is something, List of religious populations - Wikipedia If you look at this page you will see large and by far globally most of the world's population is, in fact, religious with Christianity taking 33% of the world population and Islam taking 24 % With Buddhism at 7% Hinduism taking a 15 % With Non religious beliefs like atheism taking 16 %

Keeping in mind that only 16 % of the world's population is non-belief or agnostic or atheist.

Just at this point. That is 79 % of the population of the earth who practice religion versus 16% who do not, and I didn't even finish the list, according to you, The majority of the population of the earth is working with a below average IQ. Seems a little off to me, honestly. How can it be a below average IQ, When the majority seems to be practicing religion. it seems it would be more like an average IQ that practices religion. at this point.

 

[Sheltie]

I don't want to open a can of worms here but I don't like it when there is a discussion of intelligence based on various popular tests and evaluations. After all, what is intelligence? How do we define it?

We've all known that person who has more degrees than a thermometer yet has a shockingly inadequate amount of common sense. And there are the people who have exceptional book sense but seemingly little street sense.

Most intelligence tests are weighted heavily towards problem solving and analytical skills with significantly less attention to creativity and intuition.

My father was a high school dropout but he had the smarts to learn a trade and start a family and put his kids through college.

The OP was about belief in God so I suppose I've digressed.

 

[Shadowprophet]

I don't want to open a can of worms here but I don't like it when there is a discussion of intelligence based on various popular tests and evaluations. After all, what is intelligence? How do we define it?

We've all known that person who has more degrees than a thermometer yet has a shockingly inadequate amount of common sense. And there are the people who have exceptional book sense but seemingly little street sense.

Most intelligence tests are weighted heavily towards problem solving and analytical skills with significantly less attention to creativity and intuition.

My father was a high school dropout but he had the smarts to learn a trade and start a family and put his kids through college.

The OP was about belief in God so I suppose I've digressed.

Thank you!!! OMG Thank you!!! I wanted to say something similar, But, I very much didn't want to speak out. These kinds of conversations are tricky and delicate to be sure.

 

[nivek]

And yeah, honestly I understand scientists that judge hardcore religious folks. You know, the people that believe man was molded from clay and the world was made in 7 days. Because it's funny to poke fun at them...

Vise versa of that too I have heard before, hardcore religious folks judging and ridiculing scientists and some think they get a free pass because they can ask forgiveness and their 'sins' are washed away at Sunday church...Keep in mind too that the extreme end of some hardcore religious folk are the fanaticals, radicals, terrorists...We don't see radical scientists going around blowing up stuff...Don't misunderstand me though, this post may give the impression that I'm atheist, I am not...

...

 

[Shadowprophet]

As Much as I've screamed about religion over the years, I've screamed ten times the science. I have my spiritual beliefs, But Science isn't guesswork. There is no empirical science fact anywhere that can confirm A deity or creator does or does not exist.

In fact, it must be said, Many people who legitimately are educated in the field Have questioned Gods existence, The like's of, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, And Neil DeGrasse Tyson, They search for answers, Maybe they don't believe in God, But they Believe in science enough to be convicted in the fact that they can not use science to disprove God because they don't possess empirical evidence. Any scientist knows, Without empirical evidence, That leaves room for wonder and doubt.

Anyone who Really understands Science, Knows that Science is an empirical study. You simply can not use it to make someone who is religious look like a fool without looking uneducated in the field. That's just a fact.

It's fine to not believe in a God, It's fine to believe in one if someone wants too, But it's not fine to misuse science then declare scientifically there is no God and begin Casting judgments on others. That's simply uninformed.

Ultimately, here, I'm only defending Science, I've chilled out a lot over the years, And I'm not defending religion or God, I think there are enough people doing that already. This was just to point out the fact that, Anyone who laughs at religion and then says science, knows nothing of either subject.

 

[nivek]

You see, I see nature as a movement forward in one direction and we have to unpick it in the opposite direction.

When things go in a straight line, we see it as a natural occurrence . When it goes back on itself it is designed to do so. Can't think of any other natural event where this has taken place.

We are it.

Awakening in the spirit sense goes against nature, shaking off the natural laws that assist in keep one 'asleep'...

...

 

[Dejan Corovic]

Just at this point. That is 79 % of the population of the earth who practice religion versus 16% who do not, and I didn't even finish the list, according to you, The majority of the population of the earth is working with a below average IQ.

You can't happily include whole the rest of the menkind. In many countries that you included it can be deadly to be atheist, while in other it can ruin your job prospects or social opportunities. Good example is Iran or Saudi Arabia where it would attract mutilation and incarceration. In Turkey teaching of evolution is banned in a primary and secondary schools, and only those who go to university to study biology or agriculture will actually ever hear about Darwinism. Even in Europe things can be bleak. In Poland, where 98% of people declare themselves religious you are fired on the spot if you are at atheist. In Germany you can be atheist if you like but you still have to pay mandatory 1.5% tax for upholding religion. Even in US Bush senior said something nasty about US born atheists, like that they are automatically trietors.

What I said can only hold in a few countries where one is under no kind of threat when choosing between religion and atheism.

Religion is simply intellectual residue from agrarian revolution. Meaning, that's how we reasoned when we were at our most primitive and ignorant.

Religion is mostly based on folk tales and stories about everyday domestic affairs, more or less, a it is nothing more than sacrosantual soap opera. What IQ does one need to follow soap opera and what IQ does one need to understand Lagrangian mechanics that permeates Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity?

But don't get me wrong. Although I am against religion, it might actually be built into our genes. There was an interesting book that showed a difference between us and chimpanzees. Chimpanzees are extremely practical and will only do things with immediate benefit, while human babies have a tendency to follow rituals and strongly depend on on faith and hope.

And faith and hope are big part of every human endeavour even if you are an scientist. Einstein struggled through uncharted territory for 10 years with mathematics of general relativity. What kept him fighting against his own constant errors in judgement was actually hope that he was right.

Obviously, being delusional is a big part of our success as a species.

It's a pity that religion is abusing spirituality because there is a such a thing as a true essence that permeates whole universe and it's simply a mathematics and laws of nature. But differential calculus is no match for superstars like Jesus and Buddha.

When one takes into account that the same mega sophicitated laws of quantum mechanics explain, in great detail, structure of stars, as well as, structure and functioning of DNA, one has to ask why neither Bible, nor Kuran, nor Hindu books mention such essential things like DNA, atoms or expansion of universe? If these books were the word of God, wouldn't a God be smart enough to know what DNA or atom is? It's just proof that holly books are not word of God at all, but simply word of very ignorant writers.

Religion is no more than simply a measure of somebody's primitivism.

What average intelligence means is that 50% of population is bellow average intelligence. Somebody has to be the 'tupid one. Essentially, when you walk down the street it's every other person.

 

[Shadowprophet]

You can't happily include whole the rest of the menkind. In many countries that you included it can be deadly to be atheist, while in other it can ruin your job prospects or social opportunities. Good example is Iran or Saudi Arabia where it would attract mutilation and incarceration. In Turkey teaching of evolution is banned in a primary and secondary schools, and only those who go to university to study biology or agriculture will actually ever hear about Darwinism. Even in Europe things can be bleak. In Poland, where 98% of people declare themselves religious you are fired on the spot if you are at atheist. In Germany you can be atheist if you like but you still have to pay mandatory 1.5% tax for upholding religion. Even in US Bush senior said something nasty about US born atheists, like that they are automatically trietors.

What I said can only hold in a few countries where one is under no kind of threat when choosing between religion and atheism.

Religion is simply intellectual residue from agrarian revolution. Meaning, that's how we reasoned when we were at our most primitive and ignorant.

Religion is mostly based on folk tales and stories about everyday domestic affairs, more or less, a it is nothing more than sacrosantual soap opera. What IQ does one need to follow soap opera and what IQ does one need to understand Lagrangian mechanics that permeates Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity?

But don't get me wrong. Although I am against religion, it might actually be built into our genes. There was an interesting book that showed a difference between us and chimpanzees. Chimpanzees are extremely practical and will only do things with immediate benefit, while human babies have a tendency to follow rituals and strongly depend on on faith and hope.

And faith and hope are big part of every human endeavour even if you are an scientist. Einstein struggled through uncharted territory for 10 years with mathematics of general relativity. What kept him fighting against his own constant errors in judgement was actually hope that he was right.

Obviously, being delusional is a big part of our success as a species.

It's a pity that religion is abusing spirituality because there is a such a thing as a true essence that permeates whole universe and it's simply a mathematics and laws of nature. But differential calculus is no match for superstars like Jesus and Buddha.

When one takes into account that the same mega sophicitated laws of quantum mechanics explain, in great detail, structure of stars, as well as, structure and functioning of DNA, one has to ask why neither Bible, nor Kuran, nor Hindu books mention such essential things like DNA, atoms or expansion of universe? If these books were the word of God, wouldn't a God be smart enough to know what DNA or atom is? It's just proof that holly books are not word of God at all, but simply word of very ignorant writers.

Religion is no more than simply a measure of somebody's primitivism.

What average intelligence means is that 50% of population is bellow average intelligence. Somebody has to be the 'tupid one. Essentially, when you walk down the street it's every other person.

I can't do Religion as a Topic, I get too impassioned, And you guys may think I'm way out there on this issue, No it's not that I really even have that will to Argue religion with people, I counter that By sighting that I've never once told anyone that what they believe is wrong or that they should believe as I believe, No, Actually, I've only ever fought this topic with people who basically want to take a dump all over another belief system. And that's what some religious debates are, One person defaming someone's belief system and them on the podium defending their belief, That's not for me, Not here, I never came to AE for Religious reasons, I feel strongly I shouldn't have to debate it. There is a reason though, Because I Do Follow a Religion see, The answers I can give to specific questions about it are very limited and concise. So if someone says, Well Shadow, How does one Get to Heaven, I have to give them My religions Take on that and what's funny is, My religion says there is no other way. So To Debate it, Puts me at a disadvantage, In every other Type of Debate, I can use my Whits and Tact and Skill to navigate. But in a religious debate, I have to follow the tenants of that belief and say the things like I am told too, So, It's really not Debating me in religion as one would be debating Generations of passed down Values that I wouldn't feel comfortable contradicting.

Religious Debates put me in a precarious predicament. Because I'm not a Fake or Part way Christian. When I debate it, I have to do so as the Bible would have me do, Now the problem is If I was always listening to the bible Then many people who are my friends, Would not be My friends. Because I would have to be a certain way.

So, In closing, I Hope people can Respect My Fantastic Love For Science, And To garnish that point I hope my years of knowing me prove I'm not an unintelligent person just looking for a light to fly into, It's generations of family tradition That I will follow to the Grave, No matter who thinks what of it, Because I love my Family that Much

 

[Shadowprophet]

if you get what I am saying. I don't nessarily agree with some things in my religion. any intelligent thinking person will have their own opinions. but religion isn't just about what someone believes. it's a way of life and living that they choose to Obey. I am not in charge of my religion. I am a servant. I serve my God. I am not the best at it. I do sin. I am not perfect. I smoke pot and Chase women.... I am not claiming to be "good" it's a religion. I "try to Obey it". ... for me, It seems there is something real and true to spirituality and growing as a person. I am very different than I used to be. I think I am genuinely tens times over a better human being than I used to be... for me I think the feeling of being a more genuine and caring person really is something spiritual. you should have known me years ago. some people here did. since then I've been through a lot and changed a lot. I will say religion out of the topic. there just has to be something real to this whole soul spirit issue I think.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

if you get what I am saying. I don't nessarily agree with some things in my religion. any intelligent thinking person will have their own opinions. but religion isn't just about what someone believes. it's a way of life and living that they choose to Obey. I am not in charge of my religion. I am a servant. I serve my God. I am not the best at it. I do sin. I am not perfect. I smoke pot and Chase women.... I am not claiming to be "good" it's a religion. I "try to Obey it". ... for me, It seems there is something real and true to spirituality and growing as a person. I am very different than I used to be. I think I am genuinely tens times over a better human being than I used to be... for me I think the feeling of being a more genuine and caring person really is something spiritual. you should have known me years ago. some people here did. since then I've been through a lot and changed a lot. I will say religion out of the topic. there just has to be something real to this whole soul spirit issue I think.

That's what it is, religion is a way of living life. Religion should never aspire to explain the universe. It should only be a moral doctrine.

I essentially see the religion for what it is, a pre-sellection of people for ethnical clensing. Priests catch you on a spirituality and than they slowly brainwash you into fearing other people. Once minds are ready, its just waiting for a moment of chaos to unleash the massacre. I watched it all in my first country, Yugoslavia. It was a big surprise to learn that some people feared me for no rational reason and that they would kill me on the spot because I didn't know their prayers!?

And it's not just Yugoslavia, that social pattern is all over the world and all over the history.

And all that talk about spirituality ends up being very materialistic. Massacre is followed by land grab.

Aftere Henry VIII banned Catholicism, 300,000 monks and nuns were dispossessed and thrown out on a street and their lands were sold by state at knock down prices. Recently, in Pakistan, some Christian women didn't show some ritual submissivnes to Muslims and guess what, after humiliation they took their land. In US about 400 Red Indians lived in a wooden fortress surrounded by their land. Some Protestant settlers dug up verses in Bible which they interpreted as granting them a power to kill red Indians. So they did, in a single night they burned fortress, killed all the Red Indians and took their land. I can go on with examples like that for a whole day. You name the religion, I'll find the Holocaust they organised.

Religious "spirituality" is just prelude for human slaughter.

 

[Shadowprophet]

That's what it is, religion is a way of living life. Religion should never aspire to explain the universe. It should only be a moral doctrine.

I essentially see the religion for what it is, a pre-sellection of people for ethnical clensing. Priests catch you on a spirituality and than they slowly brainwash you into fearing other people. Once minds are ready, its just waiting for a moment of chaos to unleash the massacre. I watched it all in my first country, Yugoslavia. It was a big surprise to learn that some people feared me for no rational reason and that they would kill me on the spot because I didn't know their prayers!?

And it's not just Yugoslavia, that social pattern is all over the world and all over the history.

And all that talk about spirituality ends up being very materialistic. Massacre is followed by land grab.

Aftere Henry VIII banned Catholicism, 300,000 monks and nuns were dispossessed and thrown out on a street and their lands were sold by state at knock down prices. Recently, in Pakistan, some Christian women didn't show some ritual submissivnes to Muslims and guess what, after humiliation they took their land. In US about 400 Red Indians lived in a wooden fortress surrounded by their land. Some Protestant settlers dug up verses in Bible which they interpreted as granting them a power to kill red Indians. So they did, in a single night they burned fortress, killed all the Red Indians and took their land. I can go on with examples like that for a whole day. You name the religion, I'll find the Holocaust they organised.

Religious "spirituality" is just prelude for human slaughter.

I dunno, I think Spirituality and religion are very different things, Sure they often come as a Set, But they aren't necessarily the same things, I think SPirituality gets a bad rap from people all the time, Anyone will think what they will on any given topic, But The Tennants of Spirituality are in fact very different From Religion, Although I'm not knocking on either Door here, I'm Just saying Religion Teaches Do this thing, Exactly this way ritualistically, While spirituality Teaches Others are Important, To care about something beyond one's own self, To Truly Serve others and recognize their needs, It can be Argued That A religious man May not know these things. It can not be argued though, That A Spiritual man Would not know these things. Consider that for a moment.

 

[Toroid]

I feel people can believe in anything they want. I think a major problem is we as so-called humans don't understand what we are, how we got here, what happens after death and who is pulling all the strings. According to the Law of One the Infinity was the first thing that came into existence then It became aware. There should be an Infinity or It worship.