Bright Insight - JFK Assassination

Dejan Corovic

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
yeah, you are using wide angle lens. That's why things look so small. I think you need to switch to a normal lens.

Human vision is either 45 or 56 degrees, same as what is called normal or standard lens. That's human central vision. Human peripheral vision is a tad greater, but we mostly use it to see movement, not detail.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
It's just a point & shoot (pardon the expression :Whistle:) iPhone 8. I have another, better camera to fool with. Unfortunately it came with an instruction manual - actual paper - as big as a phone book and I haven't fooled with it yet.

But - you see my point? No need to beat a dead horse - Internet be damned, it's not that hard of a shot. Well within the capabilities of that rifle and the shooter which is to say, it didn't require a super-sniper only a competent, trained rifleman which that little ****head was. He was a cop killer too and most likely a wife beater, apart from being a lunatic that even the Commies held at arm's length.

And you're absolutely right - what we understand as a protective detail and crime scene control simply did not exist at the time. Even 16 years later a nut case shot Ronald Reagan right in front of the Secret Service because he was allowed that close with a firearm. I'd like to believe that can't happen today, but sadly Historical Arsonists (Dan Carlin's term) do seem to turn up at the worst moments like bad pennies. Gavrilo Princip had already failed in his assassination attempt and went out for a bite to eat, he came out of a deli a few minutes later and found the Archduke's limo stalled out right in front of him because the driver took a wrong turn and got stuck. Talk about bad timing .....

List of United States presidential assassination attempts and plots - Wikipedia
 
Rick Hunter

Rick Hunter

Celestial
pigfarmer said:
It's just a point & shoot (pardon the expression :Whistle:) iPhone 8. I have another, better camera to fool with. Unfortunately it came with an instruction manual - actual paper - as big as a phone book and I haven't fooled with it yet.

But - you see my point? No need to beat a dead horse - Internet be damned, it's not that hard of a shot. Well within the capabilities of that rifle and the shooter which is to say, it didn't require a super-sniper only a competent, trained rifleman which that little ****head was. He was a cop killer too and most likely a wife beater, apart from being a lunatic that even the Commies held at arm's length.

And you're absolutely right - what we understand as a protective detail and crime scene control simply did not exist at the time. Even 16 years later a nut case shot Ronald Reagan right in front of the Secret Service because he was allowed that close with a firearm. I'd like to believe that can't happen today, but sadly Historical Arsonists (Dan Carlin's term) do seem to turn up at the worst moments like bad pennies. Gavrilo Princip had already failed in his assassination attempt and went out for a bite to eat, he came out of a deli a few minutes later and found the Archduke's limo stalled out right in front of him because the driver took a wrong turn and got stuck. Talk about bad timing .....

List of United States presidential assassination attempts and plots - Wikipedia
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The last few times that whoever is holding the office of president has visited here, there is basically a rolling sterile area surrounding the motorcade. No other vehicles are allowed on the same roadway for something like a half mile front and back. Cops are stationed under every bridge it crosses. I can't imagine what kind of security you would have to go through to get into the same building as the President, hopefully they would at least not skimp on the lube!
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I picked this up and started it but God, it's dense. Excellent writing but it's like running in knee deep sand. The level of detail is amazing and his writing literally brings you right there. Apparently he'd mix cocktails and sit with Jackie for days on end, she wanted him to write the narrative. I'll get back to it but from what I've read you need to first understand the political situation in Texas at the time as it's central to the entire thing. That whole mess is something that I think we'd have a hard time recognizing today - different era. This is what makes cherry picking facts so problematic, without the context they were created in quite a lot of the original meaning can be lost.

So yeah, Dallas was a snake pit and Kennedy knew he was under some physical threat. The CIA and Mafia certainly could have been involved but the real conspiracy was to cover up the egregious failings of first the Secret Service and the the Dallas Police Dept.

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Rick Hunter

Rick Hunter

Celestial
pigfarmer said:
I picked this up and started it but God, it's dense. Excellent writing but it's like running in knee deep sand. The level of detail is amazing and his writing literally brings you right there. Apparently he'd mix cocktails and sit with Jackie for days on end, she wanted him to write the narrative. I'll get back to it but from what I've read you need to first understand the political situation in Texas at the time as it's central to the entire thing. That whole mess is something that I think we'd have a hard time recognizing today - different era. This is what makes cherry picking facts so problematic, without the context they were created in quite a lot of the original meaning can be lost.

So yeah, Dallas was a snake pit and Kennedy knew he was under some physical threat. The CIA and Mafia certainly could have been involved but the real conspiracy was to cover up the egregious failings of first the Secret Service and the the Dallas Police Dept.

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Is that William Manchester the WWII veteran and historian? If so, he wrote some of my undergrad History textbooks. It's rather amazing that it took until 1968 for RFK and MLK to be assassinated, both of them were under constant threat from multiple populations throughout the country.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Rick Hunter said:
Is that William Manchester the WWII veteran and historian? If so, he wrote some of my undergrad History textbooks. It's rather amazing that it took until 1968 for RFK and MLK to be assassinated, both of them were under constant threat from multiple populations throughout the country.
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Yup, same one. The man can write - I just need to be able to get into it, not a quick read at all. He's been accused of inaccuracy. So what. It's a contemporary account from first person sources. Unlike say, the grandson of someone at an event in history. Only UFO nitwits accept that garbage literally.

Dallas and Texas in general was a cesspool of political intrigue. LBJ's purpose was to grease the skids there. I think today we'd have a hard time understanding the depth of the cronie-ism, the 'cut off your nose to spite your face' attitude even in light of the political amateur **** we've been subjected to. Back then & there (and a lot of other places too) it was strictly a white man's game, absolutely nothing was Woke or even remotely understanding and there was a real possibility of violence. They jockied over which venues for public events, what seating, all sorts of petty power play nonsense. Far more attention was paid to that than preventing the President from being hurt, in fact many probably quietly didn't mind at all he was killed. This is the boring context that conspiracy theorists don't want to trouble themselves with, it's more interesting to get into the actual mechanics of the event, of which I am equally guility.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Well, that video has been more than a little frustrating for me to watch on our living room TV, but that's just some technical quackery. I have the patience of a two year old to sit and watch videos at my desk but I did get to the point where we're looking at the actual mechanics of the gunshots themselves and the video evidence. Confirmation bias works both ways - whether you're Josiah or me with differing opinions.

Interesting that the frames of the Zapruder film were switched up but that might just be a mix up, not deep conspiracy. Bill Munns found that the famous Patterson-Gimlin film 'Frame 351' (I may have the exact frame # wrong, this is off the cuff) where Patty turns and reveals her boobs was actually not 351 after all and we'd been looking at that film for decades. Only very careful forensic analysis revealed the mix up - and a boatload of other detail that convinced me it's real. I see what looks like a vapor trail from a bullet fired from the grassy knoll through Kennedy's head also but the quality of the film doesn't have the definition to demonstrate that. I wonder what Munns could do with the Zapruder film.

For me it comes down to whether it would be possible for LHO to have done it and I have yet to see anything that says it was impossible. I'm not trying to sell any books, give speeches or call any attention to myself at all. I could get a Carcano carbine like that with about the same scope and dramatically wag it in front of a camera for effect too - how that shows it's 'slow' is a mystery to me, it's a bolt action rifle. That's what I saw - a normal rifle and someone staging for effect. I also saw that the Secret Service recreation at the time confirmed what I already thought - what's the problem with LHO making the shots?

With that Zapruder film here's a big difference between what it looks like and what it is. As I've said, things don't always react as you might expect when shot and I've had ample personal experience to be convinced of that. It comes down to eyewitness testimony and even this video makes a statement about how inaccurate that can be in startling events like this. Every documentary I've seen of this has mostly 'fill' from eyewitnesses that absolutely does set the stage, the context, but I'm not sure what 'proof' that constitutes, only what they think and that has probably morphed a bit naturally after the event. Add all that to what it looks like and we have all the conspiracy. We also have people making a dime on it and fanning the flames.

Suppose Abe Zapruder stayed home that day with a cold or something - would we have all this so many years later ?

Confirmation bias. I could be flat out wrong, but until I see something more conclusive I likely won't change my mind. Besides, you really think folks like Josiah and Jim Marrs ever really wanted it positively solved ?
 
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nivek

nivek

As Above So Below

Director Rob Reiner claims he's unearthed PROOF that JFK was killed by FOUR shooters not one - and says the reason the first shot missed president's motorcade is KEY to theory​

Actor and film director Rob Reiner has claimed there were four shooters involved in the murder of President John F Kennedy and insists the reason the first bullet missed is key to his theory.

Kennedy was shot as his open-top motorcade rolled through Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963 and he was pronounced dead after arriving at the Parkland Memorial Hospital.

Official investigations concluded that he was assassinated by lone gunman Lee Harvey Oswald from a sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository.

But Reiner claims there were more people involved in the fatal shooting of Kennedy who he names in his 10-episode podcast titled 'Who Killed JFK?' recorded with journalist Soledad O’Brien.

He questioned reports that Oswald was solely responsible for the murder and believes the pair have finally solved the puzzle.

(More on the link)

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Rick Hunter

Rick Hunter

Celestial
nivek said:

Director Rob Reiner claims he's unearthed PROOF that JFK was killed by FOUR shooters not one - and says the reason the first shot missed president's motorcade is KEY to theory​

Actor and film director Rob Reiner has claimed there were four shooters involved in the murder of President John F Kennedy and insists the reason the first bullet missed is key to his theory.

Kennedy was shot as his open-top motorcade rolled through Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963 and he was pronounced dead after arriving at the Parkland Memorial Hospital.

Official investigations concluded that he was assassinated by lone gunman Lee Harvey Oswald from a sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository.

But Reiner claims there were more people involved in the fatal shooting of Kennedy who he names in his 10-episode podcast titled 'Who Killed JFK?' recorded with journalist Soledad O’Brien.

He questioned reports that Oswald was solely responsible for the murder and believes the pair have finally solved the puzzle.

(More on the link)

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Reiner might sincerely believe this theory, but he is selling a product and has to make it compelling. Like C2C, it's not necessarily a good or bad thing but just business.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I listened to the beginning of the first episode and it was loaded up with production and very light on info. Honestly doubt I’ll continue, Rob Reiner’s name doesn’t carry any weight for me on this topic. Plus, he seems headed for more complicated conspiracy theories that I doubt.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I couldn't help but notice some parallels between what we just saw in Pennsylvania and what happened in Dallas.

In both cases the Secret Service and local PD had their competence questioned. Justifiably. Not the first time some territorial pissing match caused problems.

Both that industrial building we just saw and the School Book Depository are ridiculously easy sniper's perches that a professional should have seen and cleared. Conspiracy not required. Oswald had at most 80 yard shots with a bolt action rifle. The kid got off several more rounds than LHO did but at about twice the distance. Notably both at large men moving slowly - Trump was even wearing a bright red hat.

We don't really know what he used but a scoped AR platform is what is being bandied about. The only difference in capability at those ranges is that the AR is a semiauto. MOA accuracy not required and either round perfectly lethal. At 150 yards you'd have to be shooting a buffalo gun or an old trapdoor, something like a .45-70 Government to worry much about bullet drop.

J.D. Tippet was the police officer who stopped Oswald right after the shooting and was killed for his trouble. In Pennsylvania I can't help but wonder if it's true a local cop confronted the sniper but backed away when the rifle was pointed at him. Who could blame him ? Normal human reaction and may have saved Trump's life by rushing the shots. Unfortunately that doesn't help the three in the line of fire.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
The conspiracy theory is already cycling up, we're watching it live - very much unlike the JFK assassination. Most of us just grew up with it.

Having seen how easily these sorts of things grow legs is it not possible to look back at Nov 1963 as just what it appeared to be ? A kook with a rifle that could and did just slip right through the cracks.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Normally I'd put this in the Book thread but here it is.

A bit fanciful but enjoyable. A totally new twist on the assassination I'd never heard before. Fiction of course, alternate history but a pretty good fast read. Not all meals have to be gourmet, I liked this one.

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