Electric Cars
- Thread starter AD1184
- Start date
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
Best in the class Chinese BYD EV for only $9.700 + tariffs. Elon Musk asking for protection, because Tesla's cheapest EV costs around $40,000.
And BYD is backed by none the less then Warren Buffet and Berkshire Heathway.
View: https://youtu.be/KImYPs1T-Mo
And BYD is backed by none the less then Warren Buffet and Berkshire Heathway.
View: https://youtu.be/KImYPs1T-Mo
Last edited:
nivek
As Above So Below
The used electric car timebomb - EVs could become impossible to sell on because battery guarantees won't last
Our investigation found that many EVs could become almost impossible to resell because of their limited battery life.Experts said that the average EV battery guarantee lasts just eight years. After this time, the battery may lose power more quickly and so reduce mileage between charges.
Many EVs will lose up to 12 per cent of their charge capacity by six years. Some may lose even more.
Yet the cost of replacing an EV battery is astonishingly high, our research found.
In some cases, the cost of a replacement battery is as much as £40,000. For certain EVs, the cost of replacing the battery could be ten times the value of the vehicle itself on the second-hand market.
That means used EVs have a limited lifespan — which makes them a bigger and bigger risk as the years go by.
Research into EV batteries is yet to be conclusive and the second-hand EV market is new, given the first popular EVs were rolled off the production line in 2009.
Last night, one motoring expert said customers should be wary of buying a used electric car beyond its warranty (typically eight years), as after that timespan there is no easy way of measuring how much the battery will degrade before it needs replacing.
This may mean you end up needing to pay for an expensive new battery.
Motor expert Shahzad Sheikh, who runs the YouTube channel Brown Car Guy, said: ‘With a decaying battery, the range will be poor and you may find it becomes increasingly hard to resell the vehicle after eight years.
Buyers will know that they’ll only get a small amount of life out of the car so will pay only a small sum, if anything at all.’
This problem is exacerbated by the fact all new cars coming onto the market by 2035 will be electric and motorists will have to get used to paying around £10,000 more than it’s petrol equivalent, for a vehicle which is not built to last as long.
(More on the link)
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Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
EVs are just completely political brainwash.
1. EVs are dirty, because EVs contain twice as much metal then petrol cars, and digging metal requires moving lots of dirt, EVs have to pay that off and it takes 70,000 km before EVs break even as clean.
2. EVs are not safe: If you are trapped in an EV during an accident, and you can't get out, and EV start burning, that's it you'll be burned to crisp. There were even cases where rain set off a fire on EV, or just driving an EV through a deep puddle.
3. EVs loose value on secondhanded market: Fast charging degrades battery performance up to 40%. That's why EV loose value quickly on second hand market.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Red, yellow, green ... and white? Smarter vehicles could mean big changes for the traffic light
U.S. NEWS
This undated photo provided by the University of Michigan College of Engineering shows vehicles as they drive through the Old Woodward Avenue and East Maple signalized intersection, which was retimed using the Optimized Signal as a Service (OSaaS), in Birmingham, Mich. Smarter vehicles could mean some of the most dramatic changes for the traditional traffic signal since the yellow light was added more than a century ago. (Jeremy Little/University of Michigan College of Engineering via AP)
This undated photo provided by University of Michigan College of Engineering shows Dr. Xingmin Wang, postdoctoral research fellow at the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor, showing off a visualization of connected vehicle trajectory data insights which aid in the optimization of traffic signals. Smarter vehicles could mean some of the most dramatic changes for the traditional traffic signal since the yellow light was added more than a century ago. (Jeremy Little/University of Michigan College of Engineering via AP)
This undated photo provided by the University of Michigan College of Engineering shows Jim Lollar, Mcity test facility manager, as he works inside of a traffic control cabinet at the Mcity Test Facility, identical to ones found at signalized intersections across the country. Smarter vehicles could mean some of the most dramatic changes for the traditional traffic signal since the yellow light was added more than a century ago. (Jeremy Little/University of Michigan College of Engineering via AP)
BY JEFF MCMURRAY
Updated 12:13 AM EDT, May 11, 2024
As cars and trucks get smarter and more connected, the humble lights that have controlled the flow of traffic for more than a century could also be on the cusp of a major transformation.
Researchers are exploring ways to use features in modern cars, such as GPS, to make traffic safer and more efficient. Eventually, the upgrades could do away entirely with the red, yellow and green lights of today, ceding control to driverless cars.
Henry Liu, a civil engineering professor who is leading a study through the University of Michigan, said the rollout of a new traffic signal system could be a lot closer than people realize.
“The pace of artificial intelligence progress is very fast, and I think it’s coming,” he said.
Traffic lights haven’t changed much in the U.S. over the years. Cleveland debuted what is considered the first “municipal traffic control system” in 1914, historian Megan Kate Nelson wrote for Smithsonian Magazine. Powered by the electricity from the city’s trolley line, engineer James Hodge’s invention featured two lights: red and green, the colors long used by railroads. A police officer sitting in a booth on the sidewalk had to flip a switch to change the signal.
A few years later, Detroit police officer William Potts is credited with adding the yellow light, though as a city employee he couldn’t patent it. By 1930, Nelson wrote, all major American cities and many smaller ones had at least one electrical traffic signal.
READ MORE
Tractor-trailers with no one aboard? The future is near for self-driving trucks on US roads
GM’s Cruise robotaxi unit hires veteran Ford and Apple official to be its safety chief after crash
Mobileye CEO Shashua expects more autonomous vehicles on the road in 2 years as tech moves ahead
The advent of connected and automated vehicles, though, has presented a world of new possibilities for traffic signals.
Among those reimagining traffic flows is a team at North Carolina State University led by Ali Hajbabaie, an associate engineering professor. Rather than doing away with today’s traffic signals, Hajbabaie suggests adding a fourth light, perhaps a white one, to indicate when there are enough autonomous vehicles on the road to take charge and lead the way.
“When we get to the intersection, we stop if it’s red and we go if it’s green,” said Hajbabaie, whose team used model cars small enough to hold. “But if the white light is active, you just follow the vehicle in front of you.”
Although Hajbabaie’s research refers to a “white phase” and possibly even a white light, the specific color isn’t important, he said. Current lights could even suffice, say, by modifying them to flash red and green simultaneously to signal that driverless cars are in charge. The key would be making sure that it’s universally adopted like the current signals are.
Using such an approach would be years away, as it would require 40% to 50% of vehicles on the road to be self-driving in order to work, Hajbabaie acknowledged.
Waymo spokesperson Sandy Karp pointed out that the self-driving car subsidiary of Google’s parent company launched a fully autonomous ride-sharing service in Los Angeles and Austin, Texas, even without the addition of a fourth traffic light.
“While it is good at this early stage of AV development that people are thinking creatively about how to facilitate the safe deployment of safe AVs, policymakers and infrastructure owners should be careful about jumping too soon on AV-specific investments that may turn out to be premature or even unnecessary,” Karp said in an email to The Associated Press.
University of Michigan researchers have taken a different approach. They conducted a pilot program in the Detroit suburb of Birmingham using insights from the speed and location data found in General Motors vehicles to alter the timing of that city’s traffic lights. The researchers recently landed a U.S. Department of Transportation grant under the bipartisan infrastructure law to test how to make the changes in real time.
Because the Michigan research deals with vehicles that have drivers, not fully autonomous ones, it could be much closer to wider implementation than what Hajbabaie is seeking.
Liu, who has been leading the Michigan research, said even with as little as 6% of the vehicles on Birmingham’s streets connected to the GM system, they provide enough data to adjust the timing of the traffic lights to smooth the flow.
The 34 traffic signals in Birmingham were chosen because, like more than half of the signals nationwide, they’re set to a fixed-time schedule without any cameras or sensors to monitor congestion. Liu said although there are higher-tech solutions to monitoring traffic, they require cities to make complex and expensive upgrades.
“The beauty of this is you don’t have to do anything to the infrastructure,” Liu said. “The data is not coming from the infrastructure. It’s coming from the car companies.”
Danielle Deneau, director of traffic safety at the Road Commission in Oakland County, Michigan, said the initial data in Birmingham only adjusted the timing of green lights by a few seconds, but it was still enough to reduce congestion. Even bigger changes could be in store under the new grant-funded research, which would automate the traffic lights in a yet-to-be announced location in the county.
U.S. NEWS
Red, yellow, green ... and white? Smarter vehicles could mean big changes for the traffic light
This undated photo provided by the University of Michigan College of Engineering shows vehicles as they drive through the Old Woodward Avenue and East Maple signalized intersection, which was retimed using the Optimized Signal as a Service (OSaaS), in Birmingham, Mich. Smarter vehicles could mean some of the most dramatic changes for the traditional traffic signal since the yellow light was added more than a century ago. (Jeremy Little/University of Michigan College of Engineering via AP)
This undated photo provided by University of Michigan College of Engineering shows Dr. Xingmin Wang, postdoctoral research fellow at the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor, showing off a visualization of connected vehicle trajectory data insights which aid in the optimization of traffic signals. Smarter vehicles could mean some of the most dramatic changes for the traditional traffic signal since the yellow light was added more than a century ago. (Jeremy Little/University of Michigan College of Engineering via AP)
This undated photo provided by the University of Michigan College of Engineering shows Jim Lollar, Mcity test facility manager, as he works inside of a traffic control cabinet at the Mcity Test Facility, identical to ones found at signalized intersections across the country. Smarter vehicles could mean some of the most dramatic changes for the traditional traffic signal since the yellow light was added more than a century ago. (Jeremy Little/University of Michigan College of Engineering via AP)
BY JEFF MCMURRAY
Updated 12:13 AM EDT, May 11, 2024
As cars and trucks get smarter and more connected, the humble lights that have controlled the flow of traffic for more than a century could also be on the cusp of a major transformation.
Researchers are exploring ways to use features in modern cars, such as GPS, to make traffic safer and more efficient. Eventually, the upgrades could do away entirely with the red, yellow and green lights of today, ceding control to driverless cars.
Henry Liu, a civil engineering professor who is leading a study through the University of Michigan, said the rollout of a new traffic signal system could be a lot closer than people realize.
“The pace of artificial intelligence progress is very fast, and I think it’s coming,” he said.
Traffic lights haven’t changed much in the U.S. over the years. Cleveland debuted what is considered the first “municipal traffic control system” in 1914, historian Megan Kate Nelson wrote for Smithsonian Magazine. Powered by the electricity from the city’s trolley line, engineer James Hodge’s invention featured two lights: red and green, the colors long used by railroads. A police officer sitting in a booth on the sidewalk had to flip a switch to change the signal.
A few years later, Detroit police officer William Potts is credited with adding the yellow light, though as a city employee he couldn’t patent it. By 1930, Nelson wrote, all major American cities and many smaller ones had at least one electrical traffic signal.
READ MORE
Tractor-trailers with no one aboard? The future is near for self-driving trucks on US roads
GM’s Cruise robotaxi unit hires veteran Ford and Apple official to be its safety chief after crash
Mobileye CEO Shashua expects more autonomous vehicles on the road in 2 years as tech moves ahead
The advent of connected and automated vehicles, though, has presented a world of new possibilities for traffic signals.
Among those reimagining traffic flows is a team at North Carolina State University led by Ali Hajbabaie, an associate engineering professor. Rather than doing away with today’s traffic signals, Hajbabaie suggests adding a fourth light, perhaps a white one, to indicate when there are enough autonomous vehicles on the road to take charge and lead the way.
“When we get to the intersection, we stop if it’s red and we go if it’s green,” said Hajbabaie, whose team used model cars small enough to hold. “But if the white light is active, you just follow the vehicle in front of you.”
Although Hajbabaie’s research refers to a “white phase” and possibly even a white light, the specific color isn’t important, he said. Current lights could even suffice, say, by modifying them to flash red and green simultaneously to signal that driverless cars are in charge. The key would be making sure that it’s universally adopted like the current signals are.
Using such an approach would be years away, as it would require 40% to 50% of vehicles on the road to be self-driving in order to work, Hajbabaie acknowledged.
Waymo spokesperson Sandy Karp pointed out that the self-driving car subsidiary of Google’s parent company launched a fully autonomous ride-sharing service in Los Angeles and Austin, Texas, even without the addition of a fourth traffic light.
“While it is good at this early stage of AV development that people are thinking creatively about how to facilitate the safe deployment of safe AVs, policymakers and infrastructure owners should be careful about jumping too soon on AV-specific investments that may turn out to be premature or even unnecessary,” Karp said in an email to The Associated Press.
University of Michigan researchers have taken a different approach. They conducted a pilot program in the Detroit suburb of Birmingham using insights from the speed and location data found in General Motors vehicles to alter the timing of that city’s traffic lights. The researchers recently landed a U.S. Department of Transportation grant under the bipartisan infrastructure law to test how to make the changes in real time.
Because the Michigan research deals with vehicles that have drivers, not fully autonomous ones, it could be much closer to wider implementation than what Hajbabaie is seeking.
Liu, who has been leading the Michigan research, said even with as little as 6% of the vehicles on Birmingham’s streets connected to the GM system, they provide enough data to adjust the timing of the traffic lights to smooth the flow.
The 34 traffic signals in Birmingham were chosen because, like more than half of the signals nationwide, they’re set to a fixed-time schedule without any cameras or sensors to monitor congestion. Liu said although there are higher-tech solutions to monitoring traffic, they require cities to make complex and expensive upgrades.
“The beauty of this is you don’t have to do anything to the infrastructure,” Liu said. “The data is not coming from the infrastructure. It’s coming from the car companies.”
Danielle Deneau, director of traffic safety at the Road Commission in Oakland County, Michigan, said the initial data in Birmingham only adjusted the timing of green lights by a few seconds, but it was still enough to reduce congestion. Even bigger changes could be in store under the new grant-funded research, which would automate the traffic lights in a yet-to-be announced location in the county.
nivek
As Above So Below
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
I love it. The far car's software concluded the near car's software was an idiot .... make the turn already ... oh hell I have to go ..........
We may have just seen the first truly effective Turing test right there
J Randall Murphy
Trying To Stay Awake
E-Bikes Catching Fire
Check Out The EV Section Of This Report
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT VACCINES !
Check Out The EV Section Of This Report
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT VACCINES !
nivek
As Above So Below
EV owners say their cars are making them SICK - as driver claims her Tesla caused her nose bleeds, 'debilitating' body pains and hair loss
EVs may be safer for the environment but owners claim the vehicles are causing harm to their health.There are growing reports of electric car drivers suffering motion sickness, dizziness and nausea from the vehicles' braking and acceleration systems.
And a former Tesla owner has claimed that she experienced nosebleeds, hair loss and 'debilitating' body pains while using the vehicle she purchased in 2021.
While she was not entirely sure the Tesla was at fault, the Georgia resident and said her symptoms disappeared after selling the car.
Tesla owners have had to trade in some models because the air conditioning systems were prone to mold, which can cause asthma-like symptoms.
Tesla has been accused of being the 'worst offender' for causing motion sickness from its one-pedal throttle because they can be 'very jerky and really abrupt,' Ed Kim, president and chief analyst of AutoPacific told ABC News.
EV pedals mimic a brake pedal by allowing the vehicle to slow down or stop just by lifting your foot off the pedal, removing the need to switch between the brake and throttle like you would in a gas-powered car.
This means that there's less wear and tear on the braking system, but also means the car will jolt forward or backward depending on how quickly you press down or lift your foot off the accelerator, which drivers wouldn't experience in a gas vehicle.
'Some passengers may experience uncomfortable pitching back and forth if the driver engages and disengages the throttle too quickly or too much, and that can absolutely lead to motion sickness for passengers,' Kim told DailyMail.com.
'You have to be so careful on how to apply the throttle... if not, it can lead to an abrupt seesaw motion for passengers.'
Yet, motion sickness is only one part of EV driver's worries, according to a holistic health and wellness influencer @livingwellwithelle, who said she bought an EV to save money on gas prices but the payoff wasn't worth it.
She reported that after buying a Tesla in 2021, she started experiencing fatigue after driving her vehicle and complained the symptoms got worse over time.
'I would come home from grocery shopping and need to lay down in bed for 20 minutes before I could even unload the car,' she said in an Instagram post.
Livingwellwithelle said she and her husband spent hours in the car and both experienced the same symptoms but it wasn't until she took road trips in her mom's gas-powered vehicle and experienced no symptoms that she realized something was wrong.
The symptoms escalated until she started having nosebleeds and nausea toward the end of long car rides and said she started losing her hair in the last few months of owning the car.
She added the disclaimer: 'Am I sure the car caused these symptoms? I’m not 100 percent sure of anything.
'Is it likely? Our symptoms are gone after selling it 5 months ago.'
There is no research supporting the claims that electric vehicles cause nosebleeds, hair loss or extreme fatigue, and Debra Holtz, a spokesperson for the Clean Transportation Program told DailyMail.com: 'Our transportation experts at the Union of Concerned Scientists are unaware of any illnesses caused by electric vehicles.'
Livingwithelle claimed she experienced shoulder and neck pain, saying she thought the headrest was to blame because it forces the neck into a forward posture and curves the upper back.
Her post had more than 130 replies with one woman sharing: 'My sister and brother in law had something similar happen to them. They sent the car in for repairs and it ended up being mold everywhere.
A mother commented: 'Owned a model Y for 3 years and had major headaches, body aches, tired all the time, over all just not feeling myself. My children had the same symptoms. When I share my experiences with others they don’t believe me, I’m glad I’m not the only crazy one lol.'
However, some other users noted that because she is plant-based, her diet may have caused the issues.
Other Tesla owners have reported problems with Tesla's air conditioning system, saying it develops mold - which causes asthma symptoms - because it doesn't dry out, with some complaining that their cars arrived with a bad smell.
'My Model Y has a horrific odor from the HVAC whenever it rains. Horrible smell for days,' one person commented on Livingwithelle's post.
'Had it serviced for it and they kept blaming the cabin filter, which was clean, almost new,' they added, while others confirmed they had experienced the same issue.
Other Tesla drivers have claimed their car had mold in the heating and ventilation that filled the cabin with the smell of mold spores.
'I paid $119,000 for this car 2 years ago but didn’t know my family and myself would have mold spores injected into our lungs,' one owner wrote on Reddit.
Although inhaling mold spores can initially cause an asthma reaction, prolonged exposure can develop nosebleeds, blurry vision and headaches, among other symptoms.
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Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
Across the board EVs are more reliable and need less maintenance then internal combustion cars, because there is no friction in their moving parts.
But that table is great example of "lying by omission". Table should had included Chinese brand BYD that according to research done by Swiss bank UBS is the highest quality EV brand. BYD would probably bring cost of maintenance even further down.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
eh? why not?
What makes EVs superior - from a certain p.o.v - is relative simplicity.
Right now my truck has a pressurized fuel delivery system, a pressurized coolant system, hydraulics for the brakes, power steering, an engine and transmission that each have their own separate fluid needs. All that crap has to be kept separate and intact for the thing to work. In that respect it's really no different than it's ancestors from 1969 and 1989 sitting near it.
By comparison I'd think EV really is a more efficient system. Not my cup of tea but I can appreciate it.
nivek
As Above So Below
AD1184
Celestial
There is a good article by Ross Clark in the Spectator about the failed electric car revolution:
www.spectator.co.uk
A summary and comment:
With the threat of flooding the US domestic car market with cheap Chinese EVs, Biden has added a 100 percent tariff to imports of these vehicles to America. In turn, this has put pressure on the EU to do something about the threat of China attempting to dump the glut of these vehicles on the European market (with them already piling up in EU ports). The EU may follow Biden's lead, although apparently Germany would be unhappy, as German car manufacturers sell a lot of their vehicles in China. Any EU action to increase tariffs is likely to be followed by a retaliation from China on European cars. Due to the EU's single market rules, one rule must apply to the whole of Europe, and Germany cannot negotiate its own trading terms with China (although Germany is the single most influential country in the EU, it does have to take some losses in maintaining its empire).
Hertz, the rental car company, promised in 2021 that by 2025 a quarter of its fleet would be electric. It signed a deal worth $4billion with Tesla to buy approximately 100,000 vehicles, and promised to buy another 175,000 from General Motors. In January of this year, it announced it was sellling off 10,000 electric cars, a number which has since risen to 30,000. The company cited greater maintenance costs than ICE vehicles, with them sustaining damage more often than their gas-guzzling counterparts. Hertz also had a business model of renting many of these out to Uber drivers, but they have proven insufficient to sustain this rate of usage. It seems the company also failed to account for the massive depreciation cost of EVs compared to ICE vehicles (which are still substantial on new ICE vehicles). Hertz's share price is only one-fifth what it was when it announced its deal with Tesla three years ago.
Worse, Chinese EV batteries are lithium-iron-phosphate, whereas US and EU-manufacturers have invested in the lithium-manganese-cobalt type. This means that the Chinese batteries are actually more ethical in their manufacture, as they do not require cobalt, which is of dubious provenance, given that 63% of the world's cobalt is mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and makes intensive use of child labour under terrible conditions.
In Britain five in every six EV sales are fleet purchases. Private buyers are not sold on them, and the rate of uptake has actually slowed signficantly year-on-year. A British government commitment to ban the sale of new petrol vehicles by 2030 has been pushed back to 2035. It costs 21 pence per mile when you recharge at a fast charging station (it also takes around 40 minutes for a full charge), whereas it only costs 16 pence per mile when you fill up at a petrol station. Even still, half of the petrol price is tax, whereas EV fast charging is subject only to 20% VAT. Not every EV owner has off-street parking where they may access overnight charging. When the government stops giving EV owners a free ride, with their driving being subsidised by ICE car users, the price of fast charging is going to increase dramatically. Not to mention, there is not the generating capacity in the national grid to supply as many fast chargers as there are petrol stations.
Despite delaying the ban on petrol cars in Britain, things are coming to a head much sooner with the Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate which came into force this year. This requires 22 percent of all vehicle sales by each manufacturer to be EVs. For every vehicle they fall short on this target, they will be fined £15,000. The target for EV sales escalates each year. Buyers are not interested, and the current total share for EV sales is less than 16 percent. The only way that manufacturers can meet these targets is by restricting the sale of ICE cars. The Stellantis CEO has complained that the ZEV mandate threatens to bankrupt manufacturers due to the lack of a market for EVs (although Stellantis was an enthusiastic early supporter of forcing the car industry to go fully electric by 2030, now the chickens have come home to roost, they are not so enthused).
What happened to the electric car revolution?
China is often characterised as a copycat when it comes to industry and technology but in one way it has proved to be a pioneer. It was China which saw the first boom in electric cars – and it was China that was the first to suffer when demand for them collapsed. The vast graveyards
www.spectator.co.uk
A summary and comment:
With the threat of flooding the US domestic car market with cheap Chinese EVs, Biden has added a 100 percent tariff to imports of these vehicles to America. In turn, this has put pressure on the EU to do something about the threat of China attempting to dump the glut of these vehicles on the European market (with them already piling up in EU ports). The EU may follow Biden's lead, although apparently Germany would be unhappy, as German car manufacturers sell a lot of their vehicles in China. Any EU action to increase tariffs is likely to be followed by a retaliation from China on European cars. Due to the EU's single market rules, one rule must apply to the whole of Europe, and Germany cannot negotiate its own trading terms with China (although Germany is the single most influential country in the EU, it does have to take some losses in maintaining its empire).
Hertz, the rental car company, promised in 2021 that by 2025 a quarter of its fleet would be electric. It signed a deal worth $4billion with Tesla to buy approximately 100,000 vehicles, and promised to buy another 175,000 from General Motors. In January of this year, it announced it was sellling off 10,000 electric cars, a number which has since risen to 30,000. The company cited greater maintenance costs than ICE vehicles, with them sustaining damage more often than their gas-guzzling counterparts. Hertz also had a business model of renting many of these out to Uber drivers, but they have proven insufficient to sustain this rate of usage. It seems the company also failed to account for the massive depreciation cost of EVs compared to ICE vehicles (which are still substantial on new ICE vehicles). Hertz's share price is only one-fifth what it was when it announced its deal with Tesla three years ago.
Worse, Chinese EV batteries are lithium-iron-phosphate, whereas US and EU-manufacturers have invested in the lithium-manganese-cobalt type. This means that the Chinese batteries are actually more ethical in their manufacture, as they do not require cobalt, which is of dubious provenance, given that 63% of the world's cobalt is mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and makes intensive use of child labour under terrible conditions.
In Britain five in every six EV sales are fleet purchases. Private buyers are not sold on them, and the rate of uptake has actually slowed signficantly year-on-year. A British government commitment to ban the sale of new petrol vehicles by 2030 has been pushed back to 2035. It costs 21 pence per mile when you recharge at a fast charging station (it also takes around 40 minutes for a full charge), whereas it only costs 16 pence per mile when you fill up at a petrol station. Even still, half of the petrol price is tax, whereas EV fast charging is subject only to 20% VAT. Not every EV owner has off-street parking where they may access overnight charging. When the government stops giving EV owners a free ride, with their driving being subsidised by ICE car users, the price of fast charging is going to increase dramatically. Not to mention, there is not the generating capacity in the national grid to supply as many fast chargers as there are petrol stations.
Despite delaying the ban on petrol cars in Britain, things are coming to a head much sooner with the Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate which came into force this year. This requires 22 percent of all vehicle sales by each manufacturer to be EVs. For every vehicle they fall short on this target, they will be fined £15,000. The target for EV sales escalates each year. Buyers are not interested, and the current total share for EV sales is less than 16 percent. The only way that manufacturers can meet these targets is by restricting the sale of ICE cars. The Stellantis CEO has complained that the ZEV mandate threatens to bankrupt manufacturers due to the lack of a market for EVs (although Stellantis was an enthusiastic early supporter of forcing the car industry to go fully electric by 2030, now the chickens have come home to roost, they are not so enthused).
nivek
As Above So Below
There is a 15 car charging station that was builtin my area last year at the local Sheetz store...This was built by Tesla, the name is all over those charging pods, however since it's grand opening I rarely see an electric car charging at that location...I know there's a small number of Tesla cars around here, but most times when I see a vehicle parked at the charging stations it's usually a gasoline truck pulling a long trailer, so things like that park there to avoid blocking the gasoline parking areas for the store...
...
...
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
There is a good article by Ross Clark in the Spectator about the failed electric car revolution:
What happened to the electric car revolution?
China is often characterised as a copycat when it comes to industry and technology but in one way it has proved to be a pioneer. It was China which saw the first boom in electric cars – and it was China that was the first to suffer when demand for them collapsed. The vast graveyards
A summary and comment:
With the threat of flooding the US domestic car market with cheap Chinese EVs, Biden has added a 100 percent tariff to imports of these vehicles to America. In turn, this has put pressure on the EU to do something about the threat of China attempting to dump the glut of these vehicles on the European market (with them already piling up in EU ports). The EU may follow Biden's lead, although apparently Germany would be unhappy, as German car manufacturers sell a lot of their vehicles in China. Any EU action to increase tariffs is likely to be followed by a retaliation from China on European cars. Due to the EU's single market rules, one rule must apply to the whole of Europe, and Germany cannot negotiate its own trading terms with China (although Germany is the single most influential country in the EU, it does have to take some losses in maintaining its empire).
Hertz, the rental car company, promised in 2021 that by 2025 a quarter of its fleet would be electric. It signed a deal worth $4billion with Tesla to buy approximately 100,000 vehicles, and promised to buy another 175,000 from General Motors. In January of this year, it announced it was sellling off 10,000 electric cars, a number which has since risen to 30,000. The company cited greater maintenance costs than ICE vehicles, with them sustaining damage more often than their gas-guzzling counterparts. Hertz also had a business model of renting many of these out to Uber drivers, but they have proven insufficient to sustain this rate of usage. It seems the company also failed to account for the massive depreciation cost of EVs compared to ICE vehicles (which are still substantial on new ICE vehicles). Hertz's share price is only one-fifth what it was when it announced its deal with Tesla three years ago.
Worse, Chinese EV batteries are lithium-iron-phosphate, whereas US and EU-manufacturers have invested in the lithium-manganese-cobalt type. This means that the Chinese batteries are actually more ethical in their manufacture, as they do not require cobalt, which is of dubious provenance, given that 63% of the world's cobalt is mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and makes intensive use of child labour under terrible conditions.
In Britain five in every six EV sales are fleet purchases. Private buyers are not sold on them, and the rate of uptake has actually slowed signficantly year-on-year. A British government commitment to ban the sale of new petrol vehicles by 2030 has been pushed back to 2035. It costs 21 pence per mile when you recharge at a fast charging station (it also takes around 40 minutes for a full charge), whereas it only costs 16 pence per mile when you fill up at a petrol station. Even still, half of the petrol price is tax, whereas EV fast charging is subject only to 20% VAT. Not every EV owner has off-street parking where they may access overnight charging. When the government stops giving EV owners a free ride, with their driving being subsidised by ICE car users, the price of fast charging is going to increase dramatically. Not to mention, there is not the generating capacity in the national grid to supply as many fast chargers as there are petrol stations.
Despite delaying the ban on petrol cars in Britain, things are coming to a head much sooner with the Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate which came into force this year. This requires 22 percent of all vehicle sales by each manufacturer to be EVs. For every vehicle they fall short on this target, they will be fined £15,000. The target for EV sales escalates each year. Buyers are not interested, and the current total share for EV sales is less than 16 percent. The only way that manufacturers can meet these targets is by restricting the sale of ICE cars. The Stellantis CEO has complained that the ZEV mandate threatens to bankrupt manufacturers due to the lack of a market for EVs (although Stellantis was an enthusiastic early supporter of forcing the car industry to go fully electric by 2030, now the chickens have come home to roost, they are not so enthused).
Its worth mentioning as well that fast charging ruins Lithium battery's charge storing capacity up to 40%, which in turn drives prices of EVs on the second-hand market down to ground. And these batteries are very expensive to replace.
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
Within a year percent of Germans who want to buy Chinese cars jumped from 30% to 50%.. And Germans love German cars, because they are the best. In other words, China is cleaning up the marketplace.
View: https://youtu.be/iYIzzTXI9ks
View: https://youtu.be/iYIzzTXI9ks
nivek
As Above So Below
Biden unveils latest attempt to kill off gas cars in bid to force all Americans to switch to EVs by 2032
Joe Biden has dealt another body blow to America's gas car manufacturers after his stuttering roll-out of EV charging points was slammed as 'pathetic'.The Transportation Department told automakers they have eight years to squeeze another 16 miles per gallon out of their cars if they want to stay in business - while the fuel efficiency of their trucks will have to double.
Friday's edict came just weeks after the EPA slashed the limits on tailpipe emissions as part of the White House pledge to ensure that more than half of all new vehicles sold are electric by 2032.
But the administration admitted last week that just seven EV charging stations have been built since a $5-billion program was signed off in 2021.
'That's just pathetic,' Sen Jeff Merkley (D-Ore) told a Senate hearing on Wednesday. 'Something is terribly wrong and it needs to be fixed.'
The latest rules impose average miles per gallon limits across manufacturers' entire product lines, so if they make more electric vehicles they will find it easier to meet the targets.
Their passenger cars will have to average 65 miles per gallon by 2031, up from 48.7 miles today.
Pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles will have to average 45 miles rather than the 35.1 miles today.
But heavy-duty pickup trucks and large vans will have to nearly double their fuel efficiency from 18.8 to 35 miles per gallon.
The tough new regulations are designed to save nearly eight billion tons of carbon emissions by the middle of the century and have been welcomed by environmentalists and health campaigners.
(More on the link)
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nivek
As Above So Below
Secondhand EVs now cost less than used gas cars - as the electric vehicle backlash accelerates
Secondhand electric cars are now cheaper than their gas counterparts for the first time - and the gap is widening quickly.This is according to a new study from comparison site iSeeCars, which found the cost of an average used EV dropped $265 below a typical gas car in February.
This marked the beginning of the trend - and the price gap has grown to $2,657 as of latest data from May.
In the last year, average used car values have dropped between 3 and 7 percent, the report found, while used EV values have plummeted between 29 and 39 percent.
While this price drop may be good news for Americans looking for a cheaper switch to an EV, the price crash is yet another sign of dwindling US demand for the cars.
(More on the link)
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AD1184
Celestial
This article in the Telegraph
www.telegraph.co.uk
reports car industry figures that in Britain only 30 percent of car buyers who have part-exchanged an EV while buying a new car in the past year have opted for a new EV, with the balance being made up of 36pc petrol, 11pc diesel, and 23pc hybrid. It looks like for all but a minority, owning an EV is an off-putting experience.
‘Why I ditched my Tesla for a 12-year-old petrol car’
EV demand drops as motorists find limited benefits of going green
reports car industry figures that in Britain only 30 percent of car buyers who have part-exchanged an EV while buying a new car in the past year have opted for a new EV, with the balance being made up of 36pc petrol, 11pc diesel, and 23pc hybrid. It looks like for all but a minority, owning an EV is an off-putting experience.
nivek
As Above So Below
Stunning blow to electric car industry as leading manufacturer announces it's diverting $1.3bn earmarked for EVs to gas-powered trucks instead
Ford has decided to repurpose an Ontario production plant it had originally intended to use solely for electric vehicles.Instead, the automaker's Oakville assembly complex will pivot to produce large, gas-guzzling Super Duty trucks, which, depending on the model, weigh between 13,800 and 22,000 pounds.
The move will also see the company invest some $2.3 billion into the Super Duty truck production, while welcoming 1,800 workers to plant a year earlier than expected.
It will also add 400 new jobs there specifically, along with 150 at the nearby Ford Motor Co. Windsor Engine Plant.
Once finished in 2026, the facility will become the Ford's third assembly plant in the Americas reserved for this sort of production, officials said - adding that the decision simply has to due with increased consumer demand.
(More on the link)
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