then how does Joel Osteen get to work?Spiritual beings do not need to travel in vehicles...
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then how does Joel Osteen get to work?
I've read the first four you listed, and may or may not have read Messengers.I 'bumped' this thread because I have always been interested in Dr Vallee's ideas on the interdimensional concept of visitors. To me it makes as much sense as beings traveling many light years through space to get here especially in the light of modern Quantum physics. And it could answer many odd questions related to the various cases and sightings over the many years of ufo activity especially the 'high strangeness' cases.
So....who has actually read his main books like Dimensions, Confrontations, and Revelations and has anyone read a few of his older ones like Invisible College, Messengers of Deception and Anatomy of a Phenomenon?
Thoughts...?
(btw if this is better served in the Vallee thread connected to his new book,,,it can be moved there by the mods)
My experiences fit more into what Vallee and Keel describe as other dimensional. There was no physical aspect to it except that I was awakened by a bright light in my room. And not being able to find the source of that light made me think it was a dream, except that right after I saw lights in the sky. When it was over I called the police (did not have 911 back then) and asked the dispatcher if anyone had reported strange lights in the sky. It was more than lights for me but I just needed a reality check. And I feel like I was given a message though I did not hear any voice in my head, it was more about how the lights acted and what they displayed together.I have read all of Vallee's books on UFOs except the latest one. In the context of this thread, I have to say that arguments against possible interdimensional travel all depend upon our current physical knowledge, and if the assumption is that our present knowledge is going to stand for all time, and that nobody in 100 or 1000 years will be able to improve on it or even change it beyond recognition, then I think that assumption is totally wrong. Vallee, and maybe Keel, were for a long time the only UFO researchers considering this hypothesis, but I think it could explain a lot of the more puzzling cases. If there exist entities in other dimensions, or parallel universes, or whatever poor analogy we can comprehend, then they may well have the capacity to travel to ours.
Incidentally, if our current physical theories are all going to remain true for all time, then physicists may as well pack up their jobs and seek alternative employment.
I find the extra-dimensional hypothesis fascinating and do not rule it out. But I'm not aware of Vallee or anyone else presenting a physical model or theory as to how it would work in reality. Even conceding that it may be possible for a sufficiently advanced civilization, what can be done with the hypothesis at present? Is it just an idea to sit on a shelf, or is there a feasible way to investigate it?I have read all of Vallee's books on UFOs except the latest one. In the context of this thread, I have to say that arguments against possible interdimensional travel all depend upon our current physical knowledge, and if the assumption is that our present knowledge is going to stand for all time, and that nobody in 100 or 1000 years will be able to improve on it or even change it beyond recognition, then I think that assumption is totally wrong. Vallee, and maybe Keel, were for a long time the only UFO researchers considering this hypothesis, but I think it could explain a lot of the more puzzling cases. If there exist entities in other dimensions, or parallel universes, or whatever poor analogy we can comprehend, then they may well have the capacity to travel to ours.
Incidentally, if our current physical theories are all going to remain true for all time, then physicists may as well pack up their jobs and seek alternative employment.
It seems like you are still clinging to the "aliens from outer space" theory, when it may not be outer space that is being traveled. And if you can't accept that our consciousness reside someplace other than our physical brain it would be difficult for you to consider the possibilities of what extra-dimensional might mean, especially since so many have experiences that can not be linked to something physical, but are undisputed by the experiencers as actual experiences, reality, just not physical which is only a part of our reality as humans on planet earth.I find the extra-dimensional hypothesis fascinating and do not rule it out. But I'm not aware of Vallee or anyone else presenting a physical model or theory as to how it would work in reality. Even conceding that it may be possible for a sufficiently advanced civilization, what can be done with the hypothesis at present? Is it just an idea to sit on a shelf, or is there a feasible way to investigate it?
Possible FTL travel is almost in the same boat, though I do believe there are some scientific and engineering ideas and theories being pursued in that area.
Interdimensional can also mean alternate or parallel reality depending on how one defines it...or many worlds which is this theory as well...I find the extra-dimensional hypothesis fascinating and do not rule it out. But I'm not aware of Vallee or anyone else presenting a physical model or theory as to how it would work in reality. Even conceding that it may be possible for a sufficiently advanced civilization, what can be done with the hypothesis at present? Is it just an idea to sit on a shelf, or is there a feasible way to investigate it?
Possible FTL travel is almost in the same boat, though I do believe there are some scientific and engineering ideas and theories being pursued in that area.
Everyone (okay, not everyone) knows about that hypothesis. But what I'm talking about is an account, albeit speculative, about how anyone or anything could possibly move from one universe to another. If nothing can be done to try and imagine (imagination would be a start) how that could be physically possible, then the extradimensional hypothesis will remain a provocative, though fun, idea.Interdimensional can also mean alternate or parallel reality depending on how one defines it...or many worlds which is this theory as well...
Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia
Well..it's all theory and hypothesis...innit...?Everyone (okay, not everyone) knows about that hypothesis. But what I'm talking about is an account, albeit speculative, about how anyone or anything could possibly move from one universe to another. If nothing can be done to try and imagine (imagination would be a start) how that could be physically possible, then the extradimensional hypothesis will remain a provocative, though fun, idea.
By the way, it has yet to be established that there really are any other universes, Many Worlds Interpretation not withstanding. But I am comfortable with them possibly existing, and wish they do.
I love Vallee's willingness to think outside the box. I heard that during the production of E.T., Vallee told Spielberg that a being from another dimension/universe/reality would be more interesting. But Spielberg replied that that would go against the expectations of the audience. Fast forward to the past decade and there are numerous movies and TV shows about multiverses, alternate timelines, and what-not. Just like the Loki series I will be watching later this evening.
It isn't physically possible, it is not about physical anything, at least as far as I can tell, it seems to be in the realm of consciousness, a perception where we think we see something but it is not physical so it is in our mind. There are after effects that can lead one to feel, know, believe that the experience was real, but not physical. Maybe like some people think they see angels or demons or fairies. It is a mental thing. Based on your beliefs about whether this physical life on planet earth in a human body is the only life you get to experience or whether you believe there is more to us than the sum of our physical parts determines whether you could imagine or even consider extra-dimensional experiences.Everyone (okay, not everyone) knows about that hypothesis. But what I'm talking about is an account, albeit speculative, about how anyone or anything could possibly move from one universe to another. If nothing can be done to try and imagine (imagination would be a start) how that could be physically possible, then the extradimensional hypothesis will remain a provocative, though fun, idea.
By the way, it has yet to be established that there really are any other universes, Many Worlds Interpretation not withstanding. But I am comfortable with them possibly existing, and wish they do.
I love Vallee's willingness to think outside the box. I heard that during the production of E.T., Vallee told Spielberg that a being from another dimension/universe/reality would be more interesting. But Spielberg replied that that would go against the expectations of the audience. Fast forward to the past decade and there are numerous movies and TV shows about multiverses, alternate timelines, and what-not. Just like the Loki series I will be watching later this evening.
I don't think anyone said they had to be from earth, we don't know where they are from so why do they have to be from outer space?Why do they have to be from Earth? Even if they exist in many more dimensions than our consensus reality is composed of, they wouldn't need to be from Earth. They seem to shoot off into space now and again,
I agree; they don't. I don't have a clue where they are from.I don't think anyone said they had to be from earth, we don't know where they are from so why do they have to be from outer space?
Well, there are two possible ways of exploring Vallee's Anti Physical concept. One is by selecting cases that display this feature -- e.g. the Dr X case -- and creating a typology (2 objects merge into 1, solid light beams, object flies into the ground, etc.) then doing some statistical analyses. My first hypothesis to test would be a correlation with local geology, remembering Lagarde's work connecting landing reports with fault lines and my own studies of time slips where earth energies seem to play a part. My second more theoretical approach would be the simulation hypothesis, because if we are in a secondary, virtual world, then "anti-physical" phenomena would be easily accounted for.I find the extra-dimensional hypothesis fascinating and do not rule it out. But I'm not aware of Vallee or anyone else presenting a physical model or theory as to how it would work in reality. Even conceding that it may be possible for a sufficiently advanced civilization, what can be done with the hypothesis at present? Is it just an idea to sit on a shelf, or is there a feasible way to investigate it?
Possible FTL travel is almost in the same boat, though I do believe there are some scientific and engineering ideas and theories being pursued in that area.