humanoidlord
ce3 researcher
agree 100%He even thinks that there is no 'free will', which is my opinion as well.
free will would make cases where the UFOnauts tell the witnesses accurate predictions of the future, impossible
agree 100%He even thinks that there is no 'free will', which is my opinion as well.
maybe you should follow me more closelyI haven’t seen it. All I see him doing is defending his cosmic trickster mythology, and attacking everything that refutes it (which is pretty much everything).
if you read "mothman prophecies" and some of the actual journals that keel made in that period (found in: JOHN KEEL)I just explained the conjunction fallacy. That’s what that is. Bad logic.
and were did i say we are being visited by an entire civilization from another universe?What page are you on humanoidlord? Because we already went over this.
You were using the word "dimension" wrong. Words mean things. And none of the definitions of "dimension" means "universe," so we had to figure out wtf you were trying to say:
Definition of DIMENSION
Like I said before, I think it's insane that people like yourself have some big problem with the idea of intelligent beings arriving here from neighboring star systems...and yet wholeheartedly embrace the idea of other intelligent beings arriving here from another universe.
Not only is there no evidence of any kind that other universes actually exist in the first place, or indication that intelligent life could exist there...but obviously traveling between universes would be far more difficult than making the jump between stars - we haven't got any idea how interuniverse travel might be achieved, or if such a thing would be possible at all (my guess would be "not possible" since even the highly speculative wormhole concept only links two points in the same universe).
By comparison we know that billions of other star systems have Earth-like planets orbiting Sun-like stars in their habitable zones in our galaxy alone and the average age of those worlds is about 3 billion years older than our Earth (so the existence of highly advanced civilizations is essentially a statistical certainly), and we have an explicit theoretical proposal based on one of the most successful physics theories of all time, for traversing interstellar distances at faster-than-light speeds (so we know that it's physically possible and theoretically attainable for any sufficiently technologically advanced civilization).
So based on everything that we know today, it would be far more bizarre and inexplicable if we weren't being visited by other technological civilizations, than it would be if we are being visited by our interstellar neighbors.
those rebuttals you gave sadly are an example of handwaving, but i ain't going to sound like a broken record hereI'm going to tack this on here for efficacy.
Actually I've been reading Vallee and listening to his interviews frequently over the last few months, and I've given detailed rebuttals to many of his arguments right here in this thread over the last couple of days. I started to read one of Keel's books but it didn't hold my attention, so I'll have to get back to it when I have more free time. But Keel isn't a scientist, and this is a scientific question, so I don't expect to find anything of significance in his hypotheses. I'm willing to check it out though, to find out what he has to say. However it's not encouraging that literally everyone who cites him as an authority in this area has totally failed to provide a compelling argument.
for some reason nivek like to make fun of IDH just because i say cosmic trickster (wich is in itself a tongue-in-cheek term because i can't find a better word to describe it) and so he mentions the nordic god loki who also said that he was the great trickster
i already said its only one entity behind all this
this isn't a religion, a religion needs worship and i see no reason to worship a being that has caused the death of a dozen of individuals and destroyed the lifes of a thousand moreHave you read me making fun of any interdimensional theories?...No, not at all, I have only pointed out your religious belief in Loki which you have clearly said many times on this forum that your god creates all ufo and paranormal phenomena to trick us for his own amusement, Loki is alleged to be the God of mischief and your cosmic trickster is a God of mischief by all your accounts and descriptions...Same same...Please stop muddying the pool with bullshit and enuendos...You twist and back track your words so much that it hurts to even try to rationalize your posts...
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uh, what?interdimensional theories I have read
I'm sure your list of articles is very interesting, but when I clicked on the link I ended up "Page cannot be found."Hmmm, very interesting. It's pity that these current memories can not be determinedly reversed back to real memories. I don't think hypnosis can do that.
ABSOLUTELY!!! I've gave you a link few posts back. But I am sure you didn't read it because it is boring . Most of truth is really boring. What can be more "significant progress" than actually having a tool to control UFO crafts? No other branch of UFO research can come even close.
Human psychology is a big problem . People don't want to learn physics (except myself), they want exciting killer flight-or-fight narrative that is going to keep them awake at night. Problem is, lets admit it, is that most people are lazy or don't have time, they want to explain everything quickly and within content already present inside their comfort zone.
Second human downfall is adulation of authority. Nobody wants to dig and check facts, they want authority with a strong branding to give them one simple and final cut.
Explained bellow.
Because classic physics (not including QM) is so deterministic, these papers on that link, show clear cut and sequential physical phenomena. Thing A happens, than thing B happens, than C and so on, just as it would be predicted by a seasoned physicist. That's the hidden beauty of thousands of UFO witness testimonials. Testimonials are in a perfect harmony with classic physics, or Maxwell's electrodynamics to be precise. And these A-B-C steps from electromagnetism make actionable predictions and practical deterrence tools.
For example, to cut the boring stuff a bit short, UFOs produce a range of sequential EM phenomena with confirmed high statistical significance. A good haunch, like a policeman's or journalist's, would be that UFO propulsion has, at least in a part, to do something with electricity. So, (as UFO lore goes, from Col. Corso and few other sources) military had started pointing a strong, already available, radar pencil-like beams at UFOs in a hope to either bring them down or at least disrupt them. Idea is that radar's EM waves would produce electrical effect on UFOs. And according to at least Col. Corso they were successful. Essentially, it worked first time (because chain of electro-magnetic causalities is deterministic) and gave governments a practical and powerful tool to menage or threaten UFOs. This practical tool (strong pencil beam radar) immediately translates into a government's political tool, where UFOs can be controlled, crashed or denied access to any given areas and even maybe used for some kind of negotiated settlement between government and aliens. Obviously, this would be unknown to general public.
Weather we use physics or psychology and discounting for character assassinations, we here always have to work from a basis of UFO lore and have to accept these sources at a face value. We count on some scientific tools, like statistics and big data analysis, to weed out delusions and hoaxes. In the above case, UFO lore is back-to-back supported by scientific determinism of classical Maxwell's Electrodynamics. 99% of people don't see that, because unfamiliarity with electricity, but anybody schooled in EM fields would suss it out on the spot.
And this is not just information that came out of a single testimonial, so somebody can say: "ohhh, this crooked engineer cooked it all up, to make money ... " or whatever. This is all pieced together from many different, but scientifically consistent stories, which increases it's credibility.
Essentially, you give an electrical engineer or familiar scientist that link to read it and I guarantee he'll come out dumbfounded. Like: "Nobody ever told me this???", implying that that info is too real to bear. Engineers and scientists depend on shared verified knowledge so they don't need "authority" or "brands" to do thinking for them. Very unlike people in humanities who are unashamed suckers for "authority" and "brands".
And I hope, we all implicitly agree, that "authority" or "brands" are deep down just head-fakes. But that's a whole new topic for another day.
Well, than it's all Vallee's fault, because in that interview he made it all sound as if he was college dropout. Maybe he wanted to be modest etc.
Don't agree with that all, because that's only descriptive thinking.
Yes, to accelerate spaceship one can do with relatively small gravitational field. But to deflect oncoming particle beam moving at c or even FTL, one would need very strong gravitational field. So it's very unlikely that gravitational field be at all used for oncoming particles deflection. Which, in turn means, that GR warp-drive still has oncoming particle beam problem. Not a show stopper, just something to think about.
That's why I am saying, very speculatively, that these 8D Quantum Gravity theories might be onto something, because they would completely avoid oncoming particle beam problem. Possibly-maybe they might enable worm hole type of jumps through interstellar voids, because 8D theories thrive on non-locality. Non-lociality being this non-physical timeless and spaceless spooky action at distance property of QM systems, that is, in laymen's terms, explained as "one is all, all is one" etc.
And that's why I am now gona listen to that podcast with Cohl Furey.
paracast being the paracastI'm sure your list of articles is very interesting, but when I clicked on the link I ended up "Page cannot be found."
I'm sure your list of articles is very interesting, but when I clicked on the link I ended up "Page cannot be found."
Well, a very impressive collection! Most are new to me, as I left the UFO field around 1972 and lost touch with developments for a decade or more. The message appears to be that there is convincing evidence that some UFOs are propelled by various anti gravitational drives that have side effects upon witnesses and their vehicles. (The "Age Distribution" paper I didn't spot.) OK, but there is always the alternative hypothesis that many of these sightings actually result from sightings of black project craft. If I recall the first big vehicle stopping case, Levelland, occurred quite near White Sands, and one witness saw a normal looking person near one of the objects (if there were actually more than one). Worth checking out Nick Cook's book, The Hunt for Zero Point, which researches the various strands of field propulsion research. Also worth noting that the Nazis were actively researching means to disrupt vehicle operation as a possible anti-aircraft weapon.I've just checked and link worked for me. Please refresh your browser or delete cookies and try again. I would quite like to hear your opinion.
List of Technical Papers Related to UFOs and Electro Magnetism
There is a paper there called: The Age Distribution of Potential Intelligent Life in the Milky Way that I would like you to read. It is about galactic habitable zones. I am sure you've heard about habitable zones around stars, this paper is about habitable zones on galactic scale. Paper gives some fascinating estimates for intelligent life in Milky Way based on well accepted astronomical data. Suffice to say, many of these estimates shed huge amount of light on psychology of aliens. There is lots of understandable content if one simply ignores jargon heavy parts.
The message appears to be that there is convincing evidence that some UFOs are propelled by various anti gravitational drives that have side effects upon witnesses and their vehicles.
OK, but there is always the alternative hypothesis that many of these sightings actually result from sightings of black project craft.
Also worth noting that the Nazis were actively researching means to disrupt vehicle operation as a possible anti-aircraft weapon.
Also worth noting that spinning compass needles were a feature of spots on the Hills' car following their encounter (I am actually of the opinion that the whole Hill case was an exercise in mind control); also of some cases in the Bermuda Triangle, notably the Gernon case.
I reiterate that I have never rejected the ETH, but I still think it a mistake to focus exclusively on that one theory when other hypotheses have not been ruled out. (I notice that one of the articles is by someone who actually prefers the alternative dimension concept to a simple extraterrestrial explanation!)
I agree completely – Déjan has done an excellent job tracking down the best scientific works on this subject, and we all owe him a debt of gratitude for sharing them with us.Well, a very impressive collection!
I don’t know anyone who rules out that explanation for some – if not many - of the reports. Some of our top military jets are generally triangular in shape, for example - surely many people mistake these for something more exotic than what they are.OK, but there is always the alternative hypothesis that many of these sightings actually result from sightings of black project craft.
UFOs/AAVs have always been reported around major military research installations, and White Sands has been a key example since the 1940s, which instigated theodolite and cinetheodolite studies such as Project Greenglow and Project Twinkle.If I recall the first big vehicle stopping case, Levelland, occurred quite near White Sands, and one witness saw a normal looking person near one of the objects (if there were actually more than one).
First, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the ETH explains all anomalous sightings. But given the wealth of independent scientific knowledge across multiple pertinent disciplines today, I don’t see any room for doubt that the ETH explains a great many genuinely anomalous reports.I reiterate that I have never rejected the ETH, but I still think it a mistake to focus exclusively on that one theory when other hypotheses have not been ruled out.
Until very recently we had no idea that the average age of a habitable planet in our galaxy (and elsewhere) would be around 3 billion years older than our Earth. In fact we really didn’t even know if there were any other Earth-like worlds orbiting Sun-like stars elsewhere in the universe, until pretty recently. And we only saw the first viable theoretical proposal for a propulsion principle that could readily span those distances 25 years ago. So it's understandable that prior to these developments, some might have had reservations about the viability of the ETH.(I notice that one of the articles is by someone who actually prefers the alternative dimension concept to a simple extraterrestrial explanation!)
I'm not questioning that UFOs, whatever their origin, represent an advanced technology. I agree, they have the characteristics of some kind of field propulsion. But you must, I think, consider the possibility that some UFOs (e.g. the black triangle type that only became common since the 80s) represent terrestrial black project activity. An examination of the many disinformation operations that have been run shows an emphasis on the alien craft hypothesis, and that can certainly be to deflect attention away from domestic operations. Also, looked at historically, UFOs seen in previous years (i.e. before 1947 and Kenneth Arnold) rarely conformed to the standard discoid form -- airships and aeroplanes maybe, but nothing more advanced than that. Assuming we are dealing with extraterrestrials, why would they copy our own developments in 1897 and 1909 then switch to what was only a prototype in the 1940s of the discs of Townsend Brown and the German designs? Caution is required.I agree completely – Déjan has done an excellent job tracking down the best scientific works on this subject, and we all owe him a debt of gratitude for sharing them with us.
I don’t know anyone who rules out that explanation for some – if not many - of the reports. Some of our top military jets are generally triangular in shape, for example - surely many people mistake these for something more exotic than what they are.
But it’s the truly anomalous sightings that are of the greatest interest, so people tend to focus on those. The AATIP did the same thing, and they concluded that there’s a very distinct category of sightings which they call AAVs (anomalous aerial vehicles) which don’t belong to the inventory of any military on this planet. And they found that this category consistently exhibits five signature observable characteristics, most of which conform perfectly to our academic theoretical predictions for the flight characteristics of a gravitational field propulsion device, which just so happens to be the only known theoretically sound principle that permits superluminal spaceflight, making it the ideal method for interstellar travel. That can’t be a coincidence: it’s like seeing the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle falling together to create a clear and simple explanation for what we’re seeing.
UFOs/AAVs have always been reported around major military research installations, and White Sands has been a key example since the 1940s, which instigated theodolite and cinetheodolite studies such as Project Greenglow and Project Twinkle.
It might be tempting to interpret this correlation as an indication that these craft are military in origin, but the military certainly didn’t see it that way, or else they wouldn’t have initiated such studies. It appears that these anomalous devices take an interest in any site where we’re developing and/or deploying our most advanced military technologies.
First, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the ETH explains all anomalous sightings. But given the wealth of independent scientific knowledge across multiple pertinent disciplines today, I don’t see any room for doubt that the ETH explains a great many genuinely anomalous reports.
Second, the scientific method doesn’t work by ruling out competing hypotheses (i.e., proving a negative). It works by finding the most plausible hypothesis based on the preponderance of data and logical deduction, and then developing that hypothesis and testing it against additional data. When one applies that protocol to the ETH, it doesn’t just hold up; it actually gets much stronger, because all of the additional data that’s been coming in over the last few decades has lent additional support for it.
It’s up to the competing hypoetheses to present a superior explanation of the data, with the fewest additional postulates. The IDH fails to do that, and fairly spectacularly, because it requires a number of additional postulates which are totally unsupported by any evidence, such as:
- the existence of other universes
- the existence of other intelligent life forms there
- a theoretical model for transit between universes
- the technological capability to travel between universe
- the possibility of a technology which can exist in both universes, perhaps even ones with different laws of physics
That’s a hell of a lot to take on faith. The ETH doesn’t ask us to make any such leaps.
Until very recently we had no idea that the average age of a habitable planet in our galaxy (and elsewhere) would be around 3 billion years older than our Earth. In fact we really didn’t even know if there were any other Earth-like worlds orbiting Sun-like stars elsewhere in the universe, until pretty recently. And we only saw the first viable theoretical proposal for a propulsion principle that could readily span those distances 25 years ago. So it's understandable that prior to these developments, some might have had reservations about the viability of the ETH.
Now that we know how common habitable worlds are (billions in our galaxy alone), and the average age of them (billions of years older than Earth, on average), the logical considerations have shifted dramatically. If another nearby Earth-like world developed sentient life at roughly the same rate that ours did, then they’d have an extra 3 billion years, on average, to evolve both biologically and technologically.
It’s quite literally unimaginable what a species like ours might achieve technologically over that kind of time span. But I think it’s very obvious that one thing they would’ve achieved is rapid and efficient interstellar spaceflight capability, because we already have an excellent understanding of how the physics of that works within our own unfailing theory of gravitation. I would expect that such civilizations would’ve achieved vastly more confounding technological achievements than that - many of which would appear to be “magic” at our stage of development. And we know this to be true: if we could show an ancient Roman soldier a Naval laser cannon – that would appear to be magic to him. And that’s a difference of just 2000 years. We’re facing a gap of billions of years, on average, between us and our neighbors. In our wildest dreams, we can’t envision what capabilities the advancement of technology could yield across that kind of time span. But crossing the distance of a few light-years in a matter of weeks, days, or even hours, seems like a mundane expectation for such a civilization, given the perspective of our best scientific knowledge today
That’s how I see it anyway. I’m always surprised when someone like humanoidlord fails to see the clarity and power of this very logical and empirically well-founded argument.
Hello all.
Interesting thread.
I would say that neither Vallee nor Keel drove the very public Condon panel to reject UFOs as a topic for USAF scrutiny. The Condon panel did that themselves by examining USAF reports, and Condon was an expert physicist. Political? Whatever. In 1969 it wasn’t Keel or Vallee who “discredited” the ETH.
Regardless, I do not defend terminology or ideas proffered by Vallee, Keel or others. I only speak for myself. I’ve had two potential sightings, though I am pretty sure both were mundane, one probably a bolide, and the other a spectacular slowly reentering satellite.
On the other hand, while studying at university, I was struck by the complexities of the spdf orbitals as something elegant beyond a “random chance” accident. That and other science issues, together with a number of anomalous experiences, led me past my upbringing of naturalism to a theistic view of reality.
So, I’ve pondered my anomalous experiences: How can a discrete, so-called “non-corporal” sentient being know my thoughts and interact with me? My conjecture is that sentient intelligence is not confined to structures made solely of Standard Model particles. This concept will be a major hurdle for many people. The fact is, all Standard Model particles in the universe occur within the “vacuum.” So, yeah, in my best Keanu Reeves impression, “What is the ‘Vacuum’?” I haven’t read of anyone who is confident that they know what the vacuum “substance” is composed of. I get the impression that many think of it as a roiling quantum sea that continuously produces infinite pairs of self-annihilating virtual particles, together with the actual particles that make up our universe. As I understand things, in our “upper” side of the quantum vacuum (Planck length or greater), all causal interactions are limited in speed to c, or the speed of light.
So, if one be permitted to speculate, based on the pattern of discoveries of late 19th and 20th century physics that revealed a great deal of astonishingly small “substance” to the universe that was previously unknown:
What if there is, on the less-than-Planck-length “under side” of the quantum vacuum – tentatively the sub-quantum (SQ) – a different “Standard Model” of SQ particles many orders of magnitude smaller than our Standard Model particle zoo? Such SQ particles would ostensibly be all around us, engulfing us, and through-and-through us, and perhaps part of our very being as well. Yet, we would not be able to isolate and study them. What if our own consciousness is based on structures that include such SQ particles?
Too, what if there are also intelligent sentient beings composed only of SQ particles?
What if such SQ sentient beings can, and do, interact up through the Planck-length divide into our macro-Planck, Standard Model side? And if so, then perhaps these SQ entities can “precipitate” any element on our Periodic Table here on our side of the quantum vacuum, at will, in any form they like. Not exactly like heating up a mixture of metals to form a figure, but perhaps not that far from the idea, except that these SQ entities don’t need molds.
Then too, what if the SQ rate of causality is much faster than c? (?Perhaps related to what we see as “entanglement”?) That would potentially give SQ sentient entities speed of thought and action in the SQ domain much faster than us, and they could conceivably cause phenomena that, to us, do not conform to physics.
What if some of these SQ sentient entities detest human beings and continually do stuff to torment and deceive us? UFOs have been and remain so tantalizingly coy. Many people’s boundless enthusiasm for the subject is a serious distraction from pressing life-issues. And if “abduction” is actually related to UFOs, then it could be taken as evidence of such harassment.
Reject my conjecture if inclined. I concede that it is not proof. It is my speculation for myself, trying to understand my personal experiences. The bottom line, from my theistic view, is that there is an infinite-infinitesimal foundation of reality that upholds all other aspects of all of reality, the supreme Being, as written, “In him we live and move and have our being.”
I can only think of a few even semi-credible multiple witness UFO - CE3 cases. None seems to me to prove what their origin is, much less the ETH. So, any view, ETH included, would be an extrapolation.
Kelly Hopkinsville Encounter,
Father Gill in Papua New Guinea,
Anglican father and UFO 1959 at DuckDuckGo
Gaffney, SC – two cops encounter a disc and a little man who spoke excellent English,
Pascagoula, Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker,
Voronezh, USSR,
Voronezh UFO Landing, 1989
Ariel School,
So, I was passin’ by. First post. Prolly my last. Oh well … Best wishes.
Yes, but a very rare thing, not a usual one in the least.have you ever had a dog or a cat or any other pet?
if yes, haven't you ever played with it or had fun with it?
here the same thing is happening but instead of a low level sentient being playing with a non-sentient one, we have a entity playing with a low level sentient biological being
the problem is that it just proves that aliens exist, something wich is an obvious fact to anyone with a brain but it doesn't proves that UFOs are alienIt's much closer than to instant gratification, than other papers.
don't mention AATIP and TTSA please, unless you want to date your post very seriously to future readersThe AATIP
i see you are still using the idea that we are dealing with a entire civilization instead of just one entity, both vallee and keel ruled that out- the existence of other intelligent life forms there
- a theoretical model for transit between universes
- the technological capability to travel between universe
- the possibility of a technology which can exist in both universes, perhaps even ones with different laws of physics
not too different of how despite all my trouble argumenting with you, you still can't see the obviousThat’s how I see it anyway. I’m always surprised when someone like humanoidlord fails to see the clarity and power of this very logical and empirically well-founded argument.