Wade
Stare..... They are always staring
What Gene should consider,if this is the case, is a LOT of his past is mixed up in this and is likely to come out. This he would not want at any cost. Just a lot of bluster.
Gene Steinberg's Financial Shenanigans @ Paracast forums
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What Gene should consider,if this is the case, is a LOT of his past is mixed up in this and is likely to come out. This he would not want at any cost. Just a lot of bluster.
nivek
As Above So Below
Chris came here headstrong and started with his first post on how shitty members and myself were for being somewhat anonymous with our profiles...That didn't set well with me but he sort of settled a bit before disappearing from here...
...
GhostofBiedny
Celestial
Obviously he doesn't realise how using your real identity online puts you at much greater risk of identity theft, given how often major websites get hacked. It is just common sense to at least make it harder for scammers and criminals. We aren't all celebrities in Ufology and most of us don't want to be.
Anyway I have lost a lot of my confidence in Chris' judgement due to his enabling of Gene for all these years, despite knowing what he was really like.
GhostofBiedny
Celestial
My personal feeling is that Gene will only ever stop this crap if he is forced to, either by going to jail or by death.
Jail is a strong possibility even now simply because he doesn't shut up. A good criminal doesn't go drawing attention to his crimes but that is just what Gene does with his constant contradictory stories and claims of victimisation tagged on to his constant begging under provably false pretences.
All he has succeeded in doing is highlighting how closely tied up he was in the whole Bezier scam and how he continued to help him even after he went to jail and got out.
Frankly it is a wonder Gene hasn't been to prison already. Anyway as has been said before that would solve his accomodation problems.
goblin
Noble
I agree he will never stop begging. Either it's compulsive behavior, or it's all he knows at this point. He can't seem to see any problem with any of his actions in any case so, I don't see it ever stopping, not until he can't send email for one reason or another. And in order to make the begging sound (in his opinion) appealing, he'll distort the truth however he sees fit.
And really, he's allowed to be as scummy as he wants in his emails, but others are allowed to call him on it.
I just get irritated knowing some will think he is just in a temporary bind and in need of help and send him money. But oh well, it's going to happen. What he's been doing has been demonstrated to not work; he's lucky he can afford a motel room at this point. A few donations are not going to "help him get his life back" or whatever his latest rallying cry may be. But he will never stop asking for them.
Standingstones
Celestial
It’s amazing that people who considering giving Steinberg money don’t bother to do a simple check on his background. It would the first thing I did before handing over my money to a total stranger. Are people that stupid?
erickson
Honorable
Stupid? I don't regret giving money. I'll err on the side of generosity whether it be stupid or not. A lot of people are inclined to help out others and that is probably a good trait. In my case (a few years ago), I listened to the Paracast because of Chris and had not heard of David Biedny and other controversies with Gene. So it went something like this:
You listen to the Paracast. You get an email from Gene about how he is in an emergency situation but that things will improve. You feel some personal connection since you have listened to the show or posted on the forum. You give him something. It's affordable. Nothing that will be missed. Then you get more emails so you check to see what is going on. You talk to Chris about it. Life goes on.
The background check is much easier now, given the amount of information out there on the web and the sheer number of emails from Gene. However, I think the dynamics are pretty much the same, which is why begging long term leads to diminishing returns. One or two donations, perhaps. But a crisis every other day?
There are people on the street who I give money every time I see them. I don't think twice about it. On the other hand, when somebody asks for help to get home and then I hear the same story two days later, I don't give a second time. That is one reason why a patreon model might have been better than never ending crises.
I wonder, however, how Gene was able to get a $44,000 personal loan or tens of thousands in commercial loans. And I wonder how Gene was persuaded to empty his bank account and take out loans to help his brother in law and not ask the right questions (taking him at his word).
Einstein allegedly said that the boundary between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Perhaps the same thing apples to generosity.
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goblin
Noble
My guess is they either think they already know Gene from his work as a podcast host, or in some cases have had dealings with him previously that were not negative. I'm still just speculating but I imagine they don't realize how long his begging has been going on, how many things about it do not add up or hold up to any scrutiny, and that giving him money isn't actually going to help him (if anything I'd argue it enables his self destructive ways).
goblin
Noble
I am so curious about that $44,000, but have imagined the guy who loaned him that money probably does not want to talk about it.
And that money, too, seems it must have vanished entirely into some black hole operated by Stephen Beizer or Gene Steinberg. So puzzling. Was it simply to pay Beizer's lawyer(s)?
I think the book, documentary or Netflix miniseries on all this should be titled, "Gold Standard".
GhostofBiedny
Celestial
Not necessarily stupid. Naive perhaps to believe that somebody who runs a podcast that is supposed to rake scammers and hucksters in Ufology over the coals would be an honest person and intelligent enough not be caught up in unethical scams.
Further I think many of us are of the opinion that occasionally helping scammers is the price you pay for trying to give money to people who are genuinely in need. The worst outcome would be if everyone stopped helping others because of scams.
GhostofBiedny
Celestial
I'm sure everyone here is watching the UFOtrail post by Jack Brewer (if not find it here: The UFO Trail: Caveat Emptor: A Paracast Saga of Discrepancies, Omissions and Unpaid Restitution).
David Biedny (who I named my avatar after and basically got me into the Paracast originally) has broken his silence and been posting there the last few days.
I thought people might be interested in his latest comment, I will copy it below but I do recommend going to the site and reading the rest because there are a lot of relevant points by a variety of people (including people from here) that have appeared in response to the brilliant investigative post by Jack.
David Biedny (who I named my avatar after and basically got me into the Paracast originally) has broken his silence and been posting there the last few days.
I thought people might be interested in his latest comment, I will copy it below but I do recommend going to the site and reading the rest because there are a lot of relevant points by a variety of people (including people from here) that have appeared in response to the brilliant investigative post by Jack.
Standingstones
Celestial
Finally, rather than hear speculation, we hear from a person who knew what went on behind the scenes. I know that David Biedny rubs some people the wrong way. I always found him to be a straight shooter who was trying to get some answers in the field of Ufology.
Double Nought Spy
Celestial
The Paracast show was fun when DB was leading the charge. I've never had a problem with someone who cuts to the chase and says what he or she thinks. Of course it helps a lot if the person is intelligent and has something useful to say.
SilentRunning
Honorable
He's an intensely intelligent, fiercely forthright individual, and from what I know of him, really a great guy to know. I miss him in the field very much.
Double Nought Spy
Celestial
Thanks y'all, for the stuff about O'brien posting over there so I don't have to visit myself. He seems to feel the need to defend his turf first and foremost. I'm glad to see that's all it was, but I do wish he'd stop waffling and make a clean break from the Black Hole.
I don't get his attitude about online anonymity. I doubt very much that he'd fly under his own name if he didn't have books to sell and projects to fund. I have nothing to gain by it (save possibly the esteem of someone to whom my name would mean exactly nothing) and plenty to lose. I had some friends in the trenches of the drone wars ten years ago who had some really shitty things done to them by pathetic creeps who figured out who they were and where they worked. Why leave yourself open to that? Some of us could easily lose our livelihoods to the work of such cockroaches. And for what?
The really annoying thing about that attitude (O'brien did not invent it) is that it seems to be the first place some people go in online discussions when they are confronted with questions they don't like. It's like they get uncomfortable and cop the attitude that "harveythecat" isn't qualified to question ME. Hell, harveythecat isn't even a real person. That's just childish, if you ask Double Nought Spy.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
I was a long time listener – but I listen to so many podcasts sometimes they just become stew inside my head.
For my utterly gratuitous two cents I can say this: I honestly respect the fact that CO actually went and did and still seems to be doing so. Don’t have to agree with the man about everything to give credit where it’s due. The vast majority of us are content to sit on our asses. I’ve always said “you’re either doing it or you’re just talking about it.” Not that unusual – I can see bits of this in other hobbyist forums I like. Car enthusiasts who spend their days doling out expert advice and then casually reveal their car hasn’t run in years.
It does seem that the investigators who have the greatest credibility keep to themselves and don’t roll around in the mud with the peasants.
Problem I had with that podcast was that when he asks a question it’s a long run-on rambling thing and he’s using a vocabulary that he doesn’t seem to have a sufficient grip on. Punching out of his weight class. A bit of self-editing would be in order (I’ve been told I could use some too at times). In that vein I often buy books based on an interview I’ve heard with an author and that’s why I haven’t rushed right out to buy any of his. I would rather hear what the show’s guest has to say rather than hear CO talk about his background again. Sounds like he’s looking for validation. Sorry to be rude.
As for our friend GS – all I can say is that he is a recognizable entity to me and none of the nonsense people complain about the most surprises me one bit. When I read about ‘shenanigans’ I think of the poet Andre Dice Clay relating one of Aesop’s fables. “Because I’m a scorpion, you dick!” My only real problem is his once-too-often-mentioned fascination with Supergirl.
You would think that with the profusion of well-polished, interesting and successful podcasts out there now that GS might take a few tips and polish up the product a bit.No doubt someone involved is reading this thread to some degree and I'd say that if the atmosphere over there allowed for constructive criticism I may have found a more polite way to venture some.
For my utterly gratuitous two cents I can say this: I honestly respect the fact that CO actually went and did and still seems to be doing so. Don’t have to agree with the man about everything to give credit where it’s due. The vast majority of us are content to sit on our asses. I’ve always said “you’re either doing it or you’re just talking about it.” Not that unusual – I can see bits of this in other hobbyist forums I like. Car enthusiasts who spend their days doling out expert advice and then casually reveal their car hasn’t run in years.
It does seem that the investigators who have the greatest credibility keep to themselves and don’t roll around in the mud with the peasants.
Problem I had with that podcast was that when he asks a question it’s a long run-on rambling thing and he’s using a vocabulary that he doesn’t seem to have a sufficient grip on. Punching out of his weight class. A bit of self-editing would be in order (I’ve been told I could use some too at times). In that vein I often buy books based on an interview I’ve heard with an author and that’s why I haven’t rushed right out to buy any of his. I would rather hear what the show’s guest has to say rather than hear CO talk about his background again. Sounds like he’s looking for validation. Sorry to be rude.
As for our friend GS – all I can say is that he is a recognizable entity to me and none of the nonsense people complain about the most surprises me one bit. When I read about ‘shenanigans’ I think of the poet Andre Dice Clay relating one of Aesop’s fables. “Because I’m a scorpion, you dick!” My only real problem is his once-too-often-mentioned fascination with Supergirl.
You would think that with the profusion of well-polished, interesting and successful podcasts out there now that GS might take a few tips and polish up the product a bit.No doubt someone involved is reading this thread to some degree and I'd say that if the atmosphere over there allowed for constructive criticism I may have found a more polite way to venture some.
Standingstones
Celestial
You hit the nail on the head. No criticism is allowed at the Paracast. It has been that way for some time. Posters had their remarks removed on Steinberg’s whim. Consequently, many people decided to move on from that desert atmosphere.
That website is a shell of what it once was. May it Rest In Peace.
goblin
Noble
This could be part of why Gene hasn't held a regular job for many years. He probably can't leave her alone.
I didn't do it!
I didn't do it!
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