Electric Cars

[pigfarmer]

Teething issue. This is all from the hip, but as I remember Edsel had been telling his dad that the Model T was getting it a bit long in the tooth and they had to go with the Model A.

** why wasn't the Model A the first one ? **

The famous Ford Flathead V8 had serious inherent problems but was brought to market along with the Model A with the idea that a) they had to to compete to survive and b) information dissemination was glacial compared to what it is today, they simply felt thy could get them out there and fix them faster than they'd become known as failures. That's pretty much what happened with the assistance of people who had interest and ability and decided to apply themselves to aftermarket solutions. Victor Edelbrock was one of them and he must've had the right idea at some point, I have an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold sitting downstairs and yes, it's way better than the factory unit it replaced.

No rollout is going to be perfect and they all have teething issues but there's far more to this debacle than all that. Pie in the sky notions not grounded in reality. Why we couldn't have simply continued to produce our own energy while increasing fuel efficiency standards, increase the use of hybrids and EVs more gradually is mind numbing to me. EVs are not going to save the planet.

 

[nivek]

Tesla descends into battery hell​

Elon Musk says prototypes are easy, production is hell. And when it comes to the long-awaited Cybertruck, Tesla's hell is its pioneering 4680 battery. Tesla delivered the first of its futuristic stainless steel-plated electric pickups last month and CEO Musk said in October that it would probably hit an annual production rate of a quarter of a million vehicles at some point during 2025.

But Tesla is still a long way off that kind of production pace, and one of the main bottlenecks is the speed it can make the 4680 batteries used in the Cybertruck with its new dry-coating technology, nine people familiar with the matter said. Tesla's Giga Texas factory is currently churning out 4680 battery cells at rate only sufficient to power about 24,000 Cybertrucks a year, or about a 10th of the required output, according to Reuters calculations based on a combination of public data and unpublished figures provided by sources.

Being able to ramp up battery output massively by dry-coating electrodes - rather than using the slower, more costly wet-coating - was a key factor behind Tesla's forecasts in 2020 that it would more than halve battery costs, cut investment significantly, and create smaller, greener factories. The nine people, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said Tesla had yet to crack dry-coating at the industrial scale needed to make 4680 batteries fast enough to hit its production targets.

The people said dry-coating the anode in the 4680 cells was not problematic but Tesla was struggling with the same technique for the cathode - the most expensive component in a battery. Dry-coating anodes and cathodes is proven in the laboratory, as well as for smaller energy storage devices such as super capacitors, and even some small batteries, according to Yuan Gao, a battery technology consultant.

"But no one has done it so far for large EV batteries at a mass scale and at a high enough speed. Tesla is the first one to try to commercialize this," said Gao, who has worked in the industry for three decades. "The challenge is that not only does Tesla have to scale it up and speed up the process, it also must develop its own equipment and tools. It's daunting to say the least," he said. Tesla did not respond to detailed questions from Reuters for this story.

According to three of the sources, the 4680 batteries in Cybertrucks include an estimated 1,360 individual cells. That means Tesla would need to make 340 million cells a year, or almost a million a day, to supply 250,000 of the electric pickups, which are entering a hot market with rivals such as Ford's F-150 Lightning, Rivian's R1T and an electric Hummer from General Motors.

At the moment, Tesla's Austin factory takes about 16 weeks to make 10 million 4680 cells, according to Reuters calculations based on figures from Tesla, verified by the three sources. That translates to 32.5 million cells a year, or enough for just under 24,000 pickups - and that's only for the Cybertruck. Tesla also wants to use 4680 batteries to power other vehicles, most notably the $25,000 small car the company is scrambling to launch by the mid-2020s.

Tesla has some limited production capacity for 4680 cells in Fremont, California but its plant there is mainly for pilot production. Panasonic, one of Tesla's long-standing battery suppliers, is planning to build at least two plants in the United States but has only just broken ground on the first. Two of the nine people familiar with the matter believe Tesla's progress with scaling up 4680 production will likely gain steam, especially once it achieves stability with the production know-how on one production line.

They said Tesla had been focusing on establishing robust know-how to produce batteries without flaws first time round. It's a time-consuming process but, "once you crack the code and establish stability, it is like exponential", one of them said. "Speed would pick up. There is already a lot of traction in dry coating," the person said. Tesla's battery tsar Drew Baglino said in October that the company was now producing 4680 cells on two production lines in Austin and plans to install a total of eight lines there in two phases, with the last four due to be running in late 2024. Still, one of the two people said replicating established know-how from one production line to the next is no cakewalk.

The source said only about 5% of cells made on profitable production lines are ditched but scrap rates could shoot up to 30%-50% and hover there for several months as each new line gets going. One of the sources said Tesla's dry-coating method for cathodes was not proving to be any faster than the old wet process, though scrap rates had dropped to as low as 10% to 20%.

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[wwkirk]

'A storm like yesterday’s would render 80% of cars useless is, to say the least, ill-advised,' Democratic Rep Golden says

Maine forced to delay vote on EV mandate amid widespread power outages​

The devastating rain and windstorm swept across Maine on Monday, killing at least two men and leaving more than 400,000 residents without power. The storm forced businesses and schools to close as workers raced to restore power and clear roads.

BEP, which is required to prevent, abate and control pollution in the state, voted in late October to approve the Advanced Clear Car Program, which would mimic regulations in California mandating that more than 40% of new car purchases in the state be electric by 2027 and 82% be electric by 2032. The agency was expected to finalize that mandate during the meeting on Thursday.

The state proposal, though, has faced considerable bipartisan opposition from state lawmakers led by Republicans, but also from Rep. Jared Golden, a House Democrat. Golden noted this week that a strong storm would render electric vehicles useless, given their need for reliable electricity generation and supplies.

 

[nivek]

If these types batteries are continually spread out over the world it would be like living in a minefield of lithium-ion batteries just waiting to go boom...

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Cargo ship carrying burning lithium ion batteries reaches Alaska but is kept offshore amid frantic battle to extinguish the blaze as crew fears explosion​

A large cargo ship carrying lithium batteries which caught on fire has reached Alaska but continues to be held two miles offshore while responders attempt to extinguish the blaze. The 19-strong crew managed to make it to shore with no injuries reported, according to the US Coast Guard.

The Genius Star XI was carrying a load of lithium-ion batteries across the Pacific Ocean, from Vietnam to San Diego when the cargo caught on fire, the guard's Alaska district said in a release.

The fire started on Christmas Day in cargo hold No. 1, a spokesperson for ship owner Wisdom Marine Group said. The crew worked quickly to release carbon dioxide into the hold and sealed it over to avoid a potential explosion.

They then alerted the the Coast Guard early Thursday morning who diverted the 125-meter cargo ship to Dutch Harbor, one of the nation's busiest fishing ports located in Unalaska, an Aleutian Islands community about 1,287 kilometers southwest of Anchorage.

The ship arrived on Friday but was ordered to remain away from the shore to 'mitigate risks associated with burning lithium-ion batteries or toxic gasses produced by the fire,' Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Mike Salerno told The Associated Press.

(More on the link)

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[nivek]

'Tesla graveyards' form in parts of Chicago as arctic blast leaves EVs low on juice and owners unable to charge them - we explain how freezing weather cuts battery range in HALF​

Tesla supercharging stations around Chicago have become what some residents are referring to as 'Tesla graveyards' as the arctic blast runs their batteries flat.

EV owners have spent days crowded around charging stations, hopelessly trying to power up their cars in temperatures as low as -5 °F and in many cases left with no option but to hire a flatbed truck to bring their vehicles home.

Arctic air will continue to bring sub-freezing conditions to much of the country on Tuesday - in Minneapolis, Buffalo and New York temperatures were -2, 14 and 29 °F respectively.

Such cold has dire effects on electric cars - causing their batteries to drain more than twice as fast, killing their ability to generate power via regenerative braking, and slowing the charging process drastically.

At -5 °F an electric car will have less than 50 percent of its full range, according to a study by telematics provider Geotab.

And owners able to get to charging stations quickly discovered that charging them takes much longer - and is sometimes not possible at all.

The sheer number of flat EVs in Chicago and the difficulty owners were having charging them caused lines to build up at supercharging stations starting on Sunday, Fox 32 reported.

Some cars died as their owners waited for available chargers, leaving them stranded and forced to abandon them in the 'graveyard'.

(More on the link)

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[wwkirk]

17 retired military officials raise alarm on Biden's electric vehicle push​

A coalition of 17 retired military officials — including multiple one-, two-, and three-star officers — are raising the alarm on President Biden's aggressive electric vehicle (EV) push over its national security implications.

In a letter addressed to Biden and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Michael Regan, the officials led by retired U.S. Army Major General James Marks warned that the president's plans for mass EV proliferation will increase reliance on Chinese supply chains. They wrote that regulatory initiatives aimed at incentivizing EV adoption "intensify America’s vulnerability to political interference by the Chinese Communist Party."

 

[nivek]

Electric buses are sitting unused in cities across the US; here's why​

Between the federal government, states and municipalities, untold billions in taxpayer dollars have been spent adding electric buses to transit fleets across the U.S. in an effort to reduce carbon emissions.

However, cities from coast-to-coast are grappling with broken-down e-buses that cannot be fixed, are too expensive to fix, or they have scrapped their electric fleets altogether.

Officials in Asheville, North Carolina, recently expressed frustration that three of the five e-buses the city purchased for millions in 2018 are now sitting idle due to a combination of software issues, mechanical problems and an inability to obtain replacement parts.

Earlier this month, The Denver Gazette reported two of the four e-buses Colorado Springs' Mountain Metropolitan Transit acquired in 2021 are not running. They cost $1.2 million a piece, mostly paid for by government grants.

Part of the problem is the manufacturer of the buses, Proterra, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in August. The company, founded in 2004, rose to become the largest e-bus company in the U.S., representing nearly 40% of the market prior to going belly-up.

Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm sat on Proterra's board until she joined the Biden administration, and President Biden touted the company while taking a virtual tour of the manufacturer in the spring of 2021. Granholm made $1.6 million selling her stock in the company shortly after that, following criticisms that her holdings in the firm were a conflict of interest.

Asheville's interim transportation director, Jessica Morriss, told local outlet WLOS-TV it has been impossible to get parts since Proterra filed for bankruptcy last summer. However, Asheville – and several other cities – had problems with the company's buses long before then.

In 2020, The Philadelphia Tribune reported SEPTA's entire $24 million fleet of Proterras had been pulled out of commission. A spokesperson for the transit agency would not get into the specifics of why the 25 buses – the third-largest fleet of all-electric buses in the U.S. at the time – were put on ice, but suggested the issues might be covered under the manufacturer's warranty.

Then in Sept. 2021, the Daily Bulletin out of California reported that "As of August, Foothill Transit, based in West Covina and serving the San Gabriel Valley, parts of Los Angeles and Pomona Valley, had 13 idled battery-electric buses out of 32 in its fleet. At one point, the agency indicated up to 67% of its electric buses were not operating during 2019 and 2020."

The outlet noted San Joaquin Regional Transit District in Stockton, California, the Regional Transportation Commission of Washoe County in Reno, Nevada, and the Transit Authority of River City (TARC) in Louisville, Kentucky, were also struggling with Proterra buses sitting idle.

In Nov. 2022, WDRB-TV reported that TARC's entire fleet of Proterra electric buses had not operated in two years. The outlet said $9 million had been shelled out for Louisville's e-buses.

Last month, Austin, Texas-based KUT News reported the city's Capital Metro had entered into a $46 million deal with Proterra in 2020 for the company to build 40 buses. CapMetro only has six of them in operation while they await another 17 that have been built but are sitting in Proterra's South Carolina factory because chargers for them are not yet available.

The outlet also pointed to a filing from attorneys representing Broward County, Florida, regarding Proterra's bankruptcy. The lawyers told the court Broward County purchased 42 buses from Proterra for $54 million, and the first batch only operated for an average of 600 miles before breaking down, while the second batch averaged 1,800. For comparison, the county's diesel buses average 4,500 between failures, the filing said.

Some of the cities that have taken multimillion-dollar losses on inoperable e-buses, including Asheville and Colorado Springs, have paused purchasing more all-electric transit vehicles for now, and are instead opting for adding hybrid models to their green fleets until EV technology improves.

In the meantime, Proterra is poised to make a comeback.

The company was split into three parts during bankruptcy and its transit bus division was purchased earlier this month by Phoenix Motorcars, a California-based manufacturer that primarily builds medium-duty electric vehicles like shuttle buses for airports.

Jose Paul, Phoenix Motorcars' chief revenue officer, told FOX Business in an interview that the company has taken ownership of "really world-class technology" in its acquisition of Proterra.

He noted that EVs, like any new technology, have issues but are continuing to evolve and advance. When Henry Ford rolled out the Model T, it was not perfect, Paul pointed out, and says Proterra's buses have continued to improve with each generation.

Paul acknowledged that some customers, like the city of Asheville, have had challenges with operating Proterra buses, particularly due to the inability to obtain parts since the bankruptcy. He said one of the first things Phoenix Motorcars plans to do is to focus on restocking spare parts to make them available, explaining that some suppliers refused to sell to Proterra while it was under bankruptcy protection.

Roughly 300 Proterra employees, some of whom have been with the company from its start, have agreed to stay on board with Phoenix. The new owner is currently working to identify what parts customers need and, if required, to provide service technicians to get inoperable vehicles fixed.

"It's been eight days, and we've already made significant progress," Paul told FOX Business. "We can now go out there and start ramping up on all fronts, be it honoring…the backlog of orders which Proterra had…ramping up production. That's the immediate goal for us. So those are all things we're doing right now."

Paul said Phoenix's hope is that a lot of the issues customers have faced due to Proterra's bankruptcy will be handled within the next six to nine months.

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[nivek]

So, we have an entire civilization built around roads and gasoline powered automobiles to connect it all together and keep it functioning and now told that one component of this civilization was now bad and must be shunned...Alternative means and replacements are not carrying the weight, so for now gasoline powered automobiles are it, and without such can we really say with certainty that this civilization will continue as it has been?...Changing a key part of this current civilization could very well bring down the whole house of cards without a replacement that can perform to the same specifications as the part being replaced...When upgrading an automated machinery system, upgrading any component to another that does not perform to the exact or very similar specifications as the original always affects the rest of the machinery in some way, the machine never operates in the same way, doesn't perform well at all, or fails because it was designed in a particular way with certain parts and it must be kept to certain parameters to continue functioning the way it was designed...

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[nivek]

View: https://twitter.com/theblaze/status/1755375529744842880


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[nivek]

Warehouse storing lithium batteries goes up in flames in France amid growing fears over their dangers​

A warehouse storing 900 tons of lithium batteries waiting to be recycled went up in flames this afternoon, amid growing fears over their dangers.

The fire in France occurred at a storehouse in the town in Viviez in Aveyron, and residents were told to stay indoors by authorities.

Locals were ordered to keep their doors and window closed as the thick smoke engulfed the town. No injuries or deaths were reported.

While the cause of the fire has yet to be confirmed, it took 70 firefighters to get the flames under control.

Lithium batteries, found in e-scooters, are the fastest growing fire risk in London, with the London Fire Brigade called to an e-bike or scooter fire once every two days on average last year.

The fire in France has once again raised questions around the use and safety concerning the batteries.

(More on the link)

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[nivek]

Electric cars release MORE toxic emissions than gas-powered vehicles and are worse for the environment, resurfaced study warns​

Electric vehicles may release more pollution than gas-powered vehicles, according to a report that has recently resurfaced.

The study, which was published in 2022 but has begun circulating again after being cited in a WSJ op-ed, found that brakes and tires release 1,850 times more particulate matter compared to modern tailpipes which have filters that reduce emissions.

It found that EVs are 30 percent heavier on average than gas-powered vehicles, which causes the brakes and tire treads to wear out faster than standard cars and releases tiny, often toxic particles into the atmosphere.

Hesham Rakha, a professor at Virginia Tech told Dailymail.com that the study is only 'partially correct' because even though EVs are heavier, their tires will emit more microplastics into the air, but this could also be true for sedans versus SUVs.

(More on the link)

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[pigfarmer]

ound that brakes and tires release 1,850 times more particulate matter

Yeah I did a cabling job once for UPS Freight in a huge warehouse. A huge froze my ass off well below zero warehouse at the time, but that is besides the point.

They had maybe two dozen fork trucks running around on solid rubber tires. 25' up off the ground up in the steel trusses holding the roof up there was an inch thick layer of rubber and grime covering thousands of square feet. That's where all the worn tires went after about ten years of hard use. That's not unusual at all and yes, a heavier vehicle will produce more.

... like all the delivery trucks that deliver the made Elsewhere crap we order all day long

 

[pigfarmer]

I probably spend more time than most futzing with cars and just did the front brakes on my Ford truck yesterday. I couldn't help but note that it was virtually identical to the one on my old 69 Chevy and the 89 Saab (although that has a weird quirk, typically). Hydraulic system with two pistons per caliper squeezing brake pads on rotors. Nothing has really changed in the intervening 46 years that separate them, they work and are simple. The ICE powering both vehicles is also doing literally the same thing but the vast improvements in efficiency means that they can produce considerably more with considerably less, but they're not really doing anything radically different its a matter of how they do it.

The rush to pure EV is politically driven and not yet ready for prime time but some of what it offers is attractive. Think about the brakes and power steering systems and even the clutch. All hydraulic, all under pressure and totally separate systems. Brake-by-Wire makes sense as does electrically assisted power steering. No doubt you could replace a hydraulic clutch with an electric servo of some kind to do the same job - its probably already being done. That would eliminate 3 distinct systems that each have their own distinct needs. Well, maybe just 2 because the Swedes came up with a bright idea about clutches a long time ago, but my point is while some systems have improved radically others haven't changed much at all. That's changing but at a glacial pace compared to the lemming like rush to EV.

I know that electric subsystems make sense from an engineering p.o.v but there's more to it than that. I like John B Alexander's comment (about the military) that there is no Department of Good Ideas. Replacing subsystems involves possible weight penalties and increased cost of manufacture. By now you'd think we'd be used to that last bit, it's been stuffed up our arses in so many other areas this is just one more.

 

[nivek]

View: https://twitter.com/BrianRoemmele/status/1768997243632472253


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[nivek]

View: https://twitter.com/BrianRoemmele/status/1769055218275389888


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[pigfarmer]

Hertz selling 20,000 EVs from fleet, to reinvest in gas-powered vehicles

Hertz selling 20,000 EVs from fleet, to reinvest in gas-powered vehicles​

Rental car giant said the sales will continue over the course of 2024​

By Aislinn Murphy FOXBusiness

Rental car giant Hertz on Thursday said it will sell about 20,000 electric vehicles from its U.S. fleet.

The offloading of those EVs will cut the company’s global EV fleet by roughly one-third, Hertz said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The rental car giant said it would allocate funds it gets from selling the vehicles toward purchasing more internal combustion engine vehicles "to meet customer demand."

The logo of the American car rental company Hertz is seen at the Nantes-Atlantique airport in Bouguenais near Nantes, western France, April 7, 2016. (REUTERS/Stephane Mahe/File Photo / Reuters Photos)


"The Company expects this action to better balance supply against expected demand of EVs," Hertz said. "This will position the Company to eliminate a disproportionate number of lower-margin rentals and reduce damage expense associated with EVs."

Hertz said it expects selling the EVs to "take place in an orderly fashion" during 2024. It started offloading them late last year, according to the company.

Ticker	Security	Last	Change	Change %
HTZ	HERTZ GLOBAL	7.11	-0.47	-6.20%
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Various older model Teslas are available for purchase from Hertz, with prices as low as about $20,000, the Hertz Car Sales website showed. Some recently had price tags below $20,000, Electrek reported on Wednesday.

The company also has EVs from other automakers up for sale.

Hertz said it intends to "continue to actively manage the total size of its EV fleet, as well as the allocation of EVs among customer segments, including leisure, corporate, government and rideshare."

In this photo illustration the Hertz Corporation logo is seen on a smartphone screen. (Pavlo Gonchar/SOPA Images/LightRocket via Getty Images / Getty Images)

CEO Stephen Scherr said in late October last year that electric vehicles were approximately 11% of its overall pool of vehicles. Its global fleet averaged 590,000 vehicles – including ICEs and EVs – in the third quarter, according to the company’s chief financial officer.

In the fall of 2021, the rental car company said it would invest in acquiring 100,000 Teslas to help build its EV fleet.›

Hertz said Thursday it "will continue to execute its strategy around EV mobility" and keep making a "wide" selection of vehicles available to its customers.

"The Company continues to implement a series of initiatives that it anticipates will continue to improve the profitability of the remaining EV fleet," it said. "These initiatives include the expansion of EV charging infrastructure, growing relationships with EV manufacturers, particularly related to more affordable access to parts and labor, and continued implementation of policies and educational tools to help enhance the EV experience for customers."

Hertz disclosed the move to trim the number of EVs it has nearly a month before it releases its fourth-quarter earnings.

Hertz Global Holdings Inc.
The EV sales, the company said, will bring a $245 million incremental net depreciation expense in the fourth quarter.

 

[nivek]

Swiss banking giant UBS bought samples of EVs produced by EU, US and Chinese car manufacturers. After detailed tests were done Chinese manufacturer BYD beat down EU and US cars both on price and quality. BYD cars are not just 25% cheaper, but, according to engineers hired by UBS are better quality:


View: https://youtu.be/QgmDiWfZJcI

I wonder who performed these tests for UBS?...

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[AD1184]

I wonder who performed these tests for UBS?...

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Are they sure these Chinese EVs do not have a CPC-controlled software killswitch in them? It is quite likely that if they did, we would never find out until it was used. It does not even have to exist in the cars' software at the moment, if they permit over-the-air updates like Tesla vehicles.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

I wonder who performed these tests for UBS?...

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Video doesn't say who did the EV appraisal, but I know from before that there is one company in US that disassembles all new car models into pieces in a search of intellectual property infringements. Company is in either Detroit or Chicago. I bet UBS gave the job to that company.

 

[nivek]

New sodium battery that can be charged in seconds developed​

Researchers at the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) have developed a high-power hybrid sodium-ion battery that can be charged in seconds.

Sodium is considered nearly 1000 times more abundant than lithium. Therefore, sodium-ion electrochemical energy storage devices are more appealing than traditional lithium-ion electrochemical energy storage.

Led by Professor Jeung Ku Kang from the Department of Materials Science and Engineering, the research team integrated anode materials typically used in batteries with cathodes suitable for supercapacitors.

The combination helped the battery to achieve high storage capacities and rapid charge-discharge rates. The study indicates that the battery can be a viable next-generation alternative to lithium-ion batteries.

Hybrid sodium-ion energy storage device

Comprising the newly developed anode and cathode, the assembled full cell forms a high-performance hybrid sodium-ion energy storage device, which crosses the energy density of commercial lithium-ion batteries available in the market. According to researchers, the device exhibits the characteristics of supercapacitors’ power density.

“The development of a hybrid battery with high energy and high power density requires an improvement to the slow energy storage rate of battery-type anodes as well as the enhancement of the relatively low capacity of supercapacitor-type cathode materials,” said the team in a statement.

Sodium batteries can fulfill an increasing demand

The battery may fulfill an increasing demand for low-cost electrochemical energy storage devices with high energy density for prolonged operation on a single charge and fast-chargeable power density to meet a wide range of applications ranging from mobile electronic devices through electric vehicles (EVs) to large-scale grid systems.

Currently, available Sodium-ion energy storage systems are poor in rechargeability as they have a low power density while providing a relatively high energy density. Currently, two types of sodium storage systems are available, sodium-ion batteries (SIBs) and sodium-ion capacitors (SICs). Therefore researchers focused on sodium-ion hybrid energy storage (SIHES) cells.

SIHES can use the different potential windows of capacitor-type cathodes and battery-type anodes. It has attracted a lot of attention because this storage system, in principle, could simultaneously allow high energy density and fast-rechargeable power density.

According to researchers, the SIHES can achieve an energy density of 247 Wh/kg and a power density of 34,748 W/kg. Professor Kang said that the research represents a breakthrough in overcoming the current limitations of energy storage systems. He anticipates broader applications across various electronic devices, including electric vehicles.

It’s likely to be useful for rapid charging applications ranging from electric vehicles to smart electronic devices and aerospace technologies.

Co-authored by KAIST doctoral candidates Jong Hui Choi and Dong Won Kim, the study was published in the journal Energy Storage Materials.

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