The Divided State of Europe

nivek

As Above So Below
It was early last year when I was first reading in depth about Catalonia and it's desire for independence, I knew there would be bloody violence during my research last year, Spain needs Catalonia more than Catalonia needs Spain...I for one am all for them gaining the independence they deserve, after all, they are an occupied territory and not legitimately part of Spain...Catalonia is a rich region too and helps support the poorer regions of Spain...

There's other regions who are seeking independence, France, Italy, Britian amongst other EU countries are facing separatist movements and referendums for independence...Are we going to see similar violence of resistance to this call for independence as we've seen in Spain and Catalonia?...Perhaps if these centralized socialist governments had governed more balanced and fairly to all regions and protected their people's interest more we would not see so much division in Europe...

Here's a short list of calls for independence:

The divided states of Europe: Independence movements across the continent

Scotland, Britain

An historic 2014 referendum on leaving the United Kingdom shook the country to the core and resulted in a narrow 55 percent vote against a split.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, head of the pro-independence Scottish National Party, wants a second referendum once the outlines of the deal for Britain's exit from the European Union become clear.

Scotland, home to 5.2 million people, has been semi-autonomous since 1998 with a devolved parliament that handles matters of education, health, environment and justice, while diplomacy and defence remain the domain of London.

Flanders, Belgium

Born in 1830 as an independent state to act as a buffer between France and Germany, Belgium is an uneasy mix of a Flemish-speaking, conservative north and a French, left-leaning south.

With Flemish nationalist sentiment more powerful than ever, the separatist New Flemish Alliance (N-VA) has emerged as the biggest party in the country and a key partner in the coalition government.

Aiming for the eventual creation of a Flemish republic, the N-VA believes it could emerge strengthened from elections in 2019.

On Sunday Flanders' Minister-President Geert Bourgeois called on Madrid to start talks with 'the legitimate leaders of a peaceful people'.

Basque Country, Spain

The separatist group ETA was founded in 1959 to promote the culture of the Basque region straddling the French-Spanish border but veered into a violent independence campaign blamed for 829 deaths.

The group carried out its last attack in 2010 and disarmed in April this year.

Some former ETA members have joined a Franco-Spanish Basque political party called Sortu that is working for 'full freedom' for the region's 2.2 million people.

On Sunday 40,000 people demonstrated in Bilbao in support of Catalonia's referendum. The regional president, Inigo Urkullu, called on September 24 for the recognition of the Catalan and Basque nations.

New Caledonia, France

The South Pacific archipelago with a population of around 280,000 is due to hold a referendum by November next year on independence from France.

A French possession since 1853, it reached an agreement in 1998 with Paris for greater autonomy although activists say this has yet to yield concrete results.

New Caledonia boasts a quarter of the world's known resources of nickel but wealth is not evenly spread and backers of independence want major economic reform.

Corsica, France

The Mediterranean island of 330,000 people is a part of France with its own language and a troubled history.

The separatist National Liberation Front of Corsica (FLNC) ended its armed struggle in June 2014 in favour of a political process and since 2015 nationalists have been leading the island's assembly.

Corsica today has a special administrative status that grants its certain powers and retains a strong sense of autonomy.

On September 22 the Corsica assembly underlined 'the indisputable legitimacy of the government of Catalonia'.

Faroe Islands, Denmark

Denmark's Faroe Islands, home to 48,000 people, will hold a referendum in April 2018 on a new constitution that would grant self-determination.

The islands have been autonomous since 1948, although foreign affairs and defence are still the domain of Copenhagen.

Lombardy and Veneto, Italy

These wealthy regions in northern Italy are to hold non-binding consultative referendums on October 22 to ask voters if they favour more autonomy from Rome.

Politicians in Lombardy and Veneto, which together account for nearly a third of Italy's economy, are fighting for a bigger share of tax income and, in some cases, for secession.

The divided states of Europe: Independence movements across the continent
 

OLP

Adept
Here is a video of a thousand years of border changes in Europe.



The police violence that´s been organized from Madrid has sure been no help to stabilize the situation. While the majority of Catalonians would have voted to stay with Spain, this sure is not the end of the story.





I´d be surprised if the european borders would maintain the way they are for any longer than 20 years. For the european continent is one packed with different languages, cultures, desires..

Could be a very positive attribute actually to have so much diversity here. The EU would like to see all diversity (true cultural diversity, not what A. Merkel propagates) pass and to replace it with a faceless socialist economic monstrum.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
At least some of these independence desires are economically motivated and what added fuel to this is the great movement of Merkel's migrants...Threatening to change the very core of Europe there are some countries who have banded together to slow or stop this madness the German government has brought upon Europe...Countries like the Czech Republic and Poland have agreed to send police and military officers to Hungary's border with Serbia to help reinforce that border and thereby helping to protect their own...
 

OLP

Adept
In retrospective (there are many other reasons aswell, (EU!)) I would go so far and say that Merkel kicked out the UK of GB with here unlawful behaviour.
What Merkel did was against european law and she refuses to admit it.

The Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland now resemble the backbone of European Civilization as within a few generations, there won´t be any left in Germany and France..
 

3FEL9

Islander
E.U has become a very sick and nasty thing, and should be dismantled into its original states ASAP!

We could still make interstate agreements and keep *some* parts of the free trade.
But as it is now,, Complete political hubris - No way !
 

OLP

Adept
Agreed, while we get a bit Off Topic don´t we?

When I see that green and leftist youth having a say at Brussels it makes me v...

Idealistic to the bone, as good old German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt said " If you have visions, go to the doctor..".
 

nivek

As Above So Below
What Merkel did was against european law and she refuses to admit it.

The Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland now resemble the backbone of European Civilization as within a few generations, there won´t be any left in Germany and France..

Smaller countries like Sweden are taking their licks because of the poor decisions of Merkel...Its already showing that the German people are getting fed up with Merkel and her policies, it's about time too...

You're right though, some countries are too far gone and will lose all identity and culture and with terrorism on the rise, it will become more and more deadly to live in Europe...Countries like France, UK, and Germany are nurturing and harbouring the radical islamists unwittingly...

I think this has helped motivate the separatist movement, and it's understandable, these regions want to safeguard their 'countries and their culture...Unfortunately it most likely is going to get violent as these regions have their referendums and calls for independence...
 

Toroid

Founding Member
Here is a video of a thousand years of border changes in Europe.



The police violence that´s been organized from Madrid has sure been no help to stabilize the situation. While the majority of Catalonians would have voted to stay with Spain, this sure is not the end of the story.



I´d be surprised if the european borders would maintain the way they are for any longer than 20 years. For the european continent is one packed with different languages, cultures, desires..

Could be a very positive attribute actually to have so much diversity here. The EU would like to see all diversity (true cultural diversity, not what A. Merkel propagates) pass and to replace it with a faceless socialist economic monstrum.

In the video it appears the area now occupied by Germany had the most change over the last thousand years.
 

August

Metanoia
Europa is going down the plughole, thanks to a self hating anti German leader like Angela Merkel.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
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Catalonia's cry for independence is the inevitable response to 'European identity'

What an extraordinary mess Spain and Catalonia are getting into with each other. On Monday, a senior MEP told me from Strasbourg that the only talking point among his fellow MEPs was vociferous support for the police in Spain, who the previous day had beaten up 900 would-be voters in Catalonia’s referendum.

King Felipe of Spain and the EU were as one in condemning the referendum as flouting “democracy and the rule of law”. But this might recall the two core principles set out in what was, in effect, the blueprint for the future European Union, in a book called The United States of Europe, in 1932. Behind it was the thinking of two former senior officials of the old League of Nations, one of them Jean Monnet.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
So Spain has responded to Catalonia's calls for dialog comcerning independence by announcing today with conveniently minimal press coverage to remove Catalonia's President and Cabinet and to take over ALL its institutions BY FORCE, effectively taking total control of Catalonia...So much for Democracy and Liberty...
 

Captain Tinkle

Honorable
It was early last year when I was first reading in depth about Catalonia and it's desire for independence, I knew there would be bloody violence during my research last year, Spain needs Catalonia more than Catalonia needs Spain...I for one am all for them gaining the independence they deserve, after all, they are an occupied territory and not legitimately part of Spain...Catalonia is a rich region too and helps support the poorer regions of Spain...

There's other regions who are seeking independence, France, Italy, Britian amongst other EU countries are facing separatist movements and referendums for independence...Are we going to see similar violence of resistance to this call for independence as we've seen in Spain and Catalonia?...Perhaps if these centralized socialist governments had governed more balanced and fairly to all regions and protected their people's interest more we would not see so much division in Europe...

Here's a short list of calls for independence:



The divided states of Europe: Independence movements across the continent

Pass this over to Mr. Farage. Totally agree with him.

 

nivek

As Above So Below
Pass this over to Mr. Farage. Totally agree with him.



He is absolutely correct...Europe is falling hard and the UK must get out, I worry about Poland too, they are trapped between an ever increasingly aggressive Russia and an insane European governance...I have friends in Poland too...
 

3FEL9

Islander
So Spain has responded to Catalonia's calls for dialog comcerning independence by announcing today with conveniently minimal press coverage to remove Catalonia's President and Cabinet and to take over ALL its institutions BY FORCE, effectively taking total control of Catalonia...So much for Democracy and Liberty...

Thats good,, should teach them not to mess with Madrid and try to break the country apart
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Thats good,, should teach them not to mess with Madrid and try to break the country apart

The Catalonians are not Spanish, they have their own land, culture, language and was taken by Spain by force in the early years...They are a occupied country technically...They have the right to express themselves because the EU is supposed to be a democracy, so why are the member States ignoring this breach of liberty by the Spanish government?...Why aren't the Germans outraged? What say the French? Are their backs broken already?...
 

3FEL9

Islander
Well after 500 years they are spanish enough..

They should behave and stop crying like little children.. Its already an autonomous region
 

nivek

As Above So Below
"Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty; it is a blessing that must be earned before it can be enjoyed."
 
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