The problem with Steven Greer and

Discussion in 'Alien Hub' started by AlienView, Sep 5, 2018.

  1. SOUL-DRIFTER

    SOUL-DRIFTER Administrator

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    Greer had his heart in the right place but then let himself get caught up in the contactee idea. Is he one? Maybe so maybe no. Regardless he should have stayed away from that end of it and stayed where he started out in the UFO subject.

    To be honest if I had had a close encounter I would not talk about it even here unless I could get something to help prove my experiences with them. Why invite social and other problems for yourself if you do not have to?
     
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  2. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Adept

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    Ufology is right next to global worming in the importance. If we just publically accepted that advanced civilisations are here it would double or tripple goverment level of investment into science in order for us to catch up with the rest. Just imagine windfall of technologies that would come from such a campaign. Money would be spent on science as if it was Cold War II (or will it be III ;-).

    Awarenes of alien pressence would make us copy their behaviour, as we always copy the welthier and that would make us much less war like. We would benefit from their influence even on cultural and social level.

    Now, from what Grier had seen, like many ppl in ufology, he would be certain that aliens are here and he would be aware of importance of the subject for a society as whole. But how do you spread the message? If you worked in marketing and advertising you would know that spreading any message costs a lots of money. Than, making all these high quality documentaries that Grier produced cost lots of money and public can watch them for free on YouTube.

    For anybody, producing UFO content and spreading it to the audiences would be a botomless hole in a pocket.

    So it would be stupid from Dr. Grier and others not to try to recover some of the money they've spent. Obviously they will be trying to sell you something and make some of the money back. There is nothing sinister in making money. It's actually more sinister not to be able to make money. Making money in ufology would directly enable more money to be invested into UFO research. Where else would money for research come from?

    I find quite disqusting that everybody want's content for free and there are so many freeloaders who want to watch the high quality content without paying for it. I think that everybody should make a habit donating money to his or her favoruite UFO researcher to enable him to do more research.

    Dr. Grier, in my opinion, is a great guy and I've came accross the best of UFO cases because his work and his investment. He is a bit narcistic and most likely quite egoistic, but we all have our faults and that's what makes life more interesting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  3. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    How legitimate is the work of Dr. Steven Greer regarding UFOs?
    \
    Trevor Carter, Software Consultant
    Answered Apr 4 · Author has 2.6k answers and 1.1m answer views
    How legitimate is the work of Dr. Steven Greer regarding UFOs?

    "I will admit that I have not read all of Greer’s books or watched all of his videos, but from what I have read and seen I think I can formulate a valid opinion of his work.

    Greer makes a lot of fantastic claims. Whether or not any truth is among them, who can really tell? He does make some fallacious arguments for some of his claims. According to Greer he has been in contact with different alien species through some form of meditation. The problem with this claim is, how do you prove it? There could be other explanations. For example, what if the “aliens” he thinks he’s communicating with are some form of unconscious intelligence that exists right here on the Earth? Sure, that’s an exotic idea, but not completely out of the question. Or the intelligence(s) are dimensional, not extraterrestrial. Having studied UFOs for nearly 20 years now I can say that I lean more towards Jacque Vallee’s and Terrence McKenna’s hypotheses. But, I won’t go into all that detail. The point is, Greer cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he’s actually communicated with real flesh and blood aliens. For all we know, Greer is delusional. If he is, he’s a very dangerous person. He is obviously highly intelligent. Delusional + High Intelligence = Dangerous!

    Like so many others in the UFO field, Greer asks us to believe what he says. The evidence he offers is not convincing. Why does he so desperately need people to believe him?

    As for the Disclosure Project, I am not impressed. Despite the credentials of many of the members, not one can prove any of their claims. Furthermore, this is nothing new to the UFO community. There have been high ranking military and government officials coming forward for nearly 60 years. What good has it done?

    I once met a lady who attended one of Greer’s outings. She claims that Greer had a UFO come down (invisible of course) and land on top of them. She said they were in the ship, but couldn’t see it. He actually charged people to do this. I find that highly suspicious."

    Quote source:
    https://www.quora.com/How-legitimate-is-the-work-of-Dr-Steven-Greer-regarding-UFOs

    An alien, is an alien, is an alien - PROVE THAT JUST ONE EXISTS!

    Until then Humans - You are alone in a vast universe!

    Still, I too wish to return to, or at least visit, the Home Planet.


    2001: A Space Odyssey Theme • Also Sprach Zarathustra •
     
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  4. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    “You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.”― George W. Bush
     
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  5. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    And......Let the pary in question have the floor........

    "It is an understatement to say that the time has arrived for a serious and open international dialogue regarding the possibility of future interplanetary relations. In no other area of human experience has so much evidence existed for so long, and yet been attended by such a paucity of serious research and analysis - at least in the civilian domain. While the subject matter of UFOs itself is extraordinary, it is the absence of a serious human response to it that is most extraordinary."
    -Steven M. Greer

    "
    CSETI (The Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence) has in the past 18 months succeeded in intentionally establishing contact with extraterrestrial spacecraft, on two occasions at very close range, and with multiple witnesses present."
    -Steven M. Greer

    "
    It's been by turns frustrating and fascinating and wonderful beyond imagination. If what I suspect is true, it's one of the most important milestones in human history to acknowledge that we are not alone in the universe."
    -Steven M. Greer


    "
    The evidence that at least one extraterrestrial civilization has visited Earth is extensive both in scope and detail. In its totality it comprises a body of evidence which at the very least supports the general assessment that extraterrestrial life has been detected, and that a vigorous program of research and serious diplomatic initiatives is warranted.+
    - Steven M. Greer

    "
    Numerous US. Government documents exist which indicate that these objects are real and have been involved with observing Earth for several decades."
    - Steven M. Greer

    "
    There are more than 100 first- and second- hand witnesses to the retrieval of an extraterrestrial spacecraft and at least four extraterrestrial bodies from a crash which occurred in July, 1947, 75 miles northwest of Roswell, New Mexico; written and videotaped testimony from several first-hand witnesses who are respected military officers have been obtained."
    - Steven M. Greer

    "
    There are numerous daytime and night time photographs and videotapes of clearly non-human spacecraft from all over the world; these films and videotapes have been evaluated and deemed authentic by competent experts in optical physics and related fields."
    - Steven M. Greer

    "
    There are hundreds of electromagnetic cases where spacecraft have been observed by police, military personnel and civilians to affect car engines, radios and other electric devices."
    - Steven M. Greer

    "
    There are hundreds of credible reports, many with multiple witnesses, of humanoids in association with landed spacecraft."
    - Steven M. Greer

    "
    It was one to three football fields in length. It was massive, about 300 feet above the ground. It had three lights on the points of its triangle and a large red light beneath."
    - Steven M. Greer

    "
    Various polls have indicated that approximately 10% of Americans (25 million people) have seen them at close range so that details of the structure of the object can be discerned."
    - Steven M. Greer

    "
    There are more than 4000 landing trace cases from around the world.
    --Steven M. Greer


    ""“Like it or not, everything is changing. The result will be the most wonderful experience in the history of man or the most horrible enslavement that you can imagine. Be active or abdicate. The future is in your hands.”
    ― Milton William Cooper, Behold a Pale Horse











     
  6. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    337
    Steven Greer Update 08/22/2018 - New Aliens, UFOs Disclosure 2018
     
  7. Zeke

    Zeke Noble

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    772
    • How the secret government works/list of players and reasons for secrecy outlined
    • Contact protocols
    • New incidents recorded such as


    He's been investigating this for decades and here's a collection of documents and assessment. Sure you can disagree with all of it and claim it's all fake even, but a lot of it is his own insight or video.

    Evidence
     
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  8. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    Interesting yes- Evidence no.

    I have often seen indoors or in my vehicle lights dancing as though alive - You can track it back to light anomalies caused by sun refraction - Of course the motion of the lights may be hard to determine.

    The point being light anomalies, are just anomalies until source is determined, and are not, as far as we know,
    conscious beings or ET craft.

    Proof of an alien presence is yet to exist - But when you see these anomalies above nuclear missile facilities,
    and there is recorded evidence of missile shutdowns simultaneously - The circumstantial evidence
    is compelling

    Cattle mutilations with no tracks going to or from the scene is also compelling circumstantial evidence
    of aliens interacting with this planet.
     
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  9. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    I agree, I see no evidence whatsoever, its only interpreted as such...It would actually be interesting if there were evidence, but since that is lacking, its all meh...

    ...
     
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  10. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Adept

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    To me, these are just military flares hanging on parachute. Most likely Grier somehow knows in advance that that military will be dropping flares, maybe it is some regular exercise or such or maybe even he's in agreement with military and they are exchanging favors.

    UFO behavior follows certain patterns and none of these UFO patterns exist in this video. But all patterns one would expect from a flare hanging on a parachute are there. These two things never moved, never changed color, never had smaller lights entering and exiting from them and never disturbed clouds despite the size of these lights etc.
     
  11. Zeke

    Zeke Noble

    Messages:
    772
    Can you show me an example of "military flares hanging on parachute"? (Phoenix Lights second event?) or any other double sun debunk explanation as previously given by our skeptic member Dr Wu here. Also Greer goes great lengths to criticize the military for their threatening approach and his own personal interactions with generals. According to his account they approached him after successful contact attempts and asking him what the fuck is he doing. Thus I don't see how he's working with the military to hoax these flares for the public - itself a very far fetched and conflicting suggestion - without any evidence of either.

    When talking about this "phenomena" we should distinguish between two separate theories that are coming from different angles altogether. If Greer's protocols only invite the (ITH) type of ships/ETs, then they wouldn't follow the patterns of the other UFO theories.

    One is the ETH (Extradimensional Hypothesis ie. physical craft from other planets/solar systems more relying on a energy supply/matter/anti-matter, Bob Lazar's sport model etc, or nuclear powered) and second is the Inter (or Trans) Dimensional Dypothesis (IDH) (ie, crafts from other dimensions behind our own physical that can go in and out of at will and more consciousness interfaced). They may not be (and I don't think are) mutually exclusive either.

    Oh there's also the Ultraterrestrial Hypothesis (UTH), or something along the lines of @humanoidlord trickster version. There is an aspect of paranormal activity with demonic possessions and such, I suspect negative ETH entities from lower astral planes that may have power to shapeshift and show ESP and telekinesis (there's recorded accounts of these within the RCC for example). Skinwalker falls more into this category from what I've seen. But this theory alone doesn't at all account for the physical craft seen/observed/recovered (allegedly), or the above Greer example. These are things we label collectively as "phenomena" but need to be examined separately I think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018 at 6:20 PM
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  12. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Adept

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    OK, so by inference, you are suggesting that there is a credible UFO video, that we all can use as a baseline?

    Find any 100 UFO cases and you'll never find more than 5% cases where UFO didn't cycle through different colors, at least 3 different ones. Fair enough, one of these 3 colors will be orrange, in at least 50-80% cases, but they'll change to red and white-blue as well.

    There is 100 cases here, if you want to support your opinion with some evidence:

    url.UFO Çizimleri - Cases #1
    url.UFO Çizimleri - Cases #2

    I've done my counting, and I know that in vast mojority cases UFOs change color. There is a direct reason why color change happens. Statistical evidence suggests that UFO's trust is proportional to the strength of electric field they produce, which than creates plasma of various colors. Simply put, as they UFOs change gears, surrounding plasma changes colors.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018 at 5:42 PM
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  13. Zeke

    Zeke Noble

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    772
    I posted above three types of ET hypothesis to examine, and each is different. Yes I've heard of accounts of ETVs changing colors (of the inter-dimensional type at least) when they go in and out of our visible spectrum. That's part of the working hypothesis.

    Here you're saying in the video they stay orange only, so you suspect it has to be flares. Do you have any evidence that Greer hired people to drop flares or works with the military he simultaneously criticizes? I guess that's your deduction without actual proof.

    The issue we have as @nivek declares "no evidence" has to do with the evidence being confiscated and kept in these unacknowledged projects after any one of the said ETV/UFO is shot down or comes down and retrieved. There is no access to said "evidence". We are at a standstill, with video like above obviously not going to go far in skeptics circles. One moth pic and charging to make a living and -poof- all his credibility is gone for this group.

    So given we don't here have our own directed energy weapons and in orbit satellite "star wars" in place to detect and shoot these ships down, or The Expanse ETV Recovery Team (say these members @nivek @Toroid @The shadow @humanoidlord @Shadowprophet @Gambeir), we are not in position to provide conclusively the said "evidence". We are going by the trickle from Pentagon/TTSA/ADAM disclosure. Skeptics are forced to deal with. Dr Greer's contacts (lets say are real) are further complicated by the fact he is allegedly dealing with trans-dimensional craft or advanced piloted by consciousness interface. David Adair's account describes such ETVs on Area 51 in the 1960s. Are these the same? idk but they have overlapping properties.

    These ETVs/UFOs don't fall from the sky or land willy-nilly. I highly suspect they are knocked down by covert military then recovered. Generally visiting in direction of a primary directive of non-interference with human affairs and not a threat on global or national level, with few exceptions - when they meet with a few individuals they have history with (one account I've heard) or take dna samples (maybe to save themselves from extinction as part of deal with the U.S military in exchange for saucers) idk all their motives, working hypothesis only.

    Prior to this, we have had decades of evidence of cover ups by whisteblowers and UFO related events. This made it clear to me that ETVs are real and visiting Earth, siding with Stanton Friedman and Richard Dolan on the conclusion reached prior to the Pentagon program being disclosed now. I've also had personal accounts with people I highly respect who claimed to have had contact with ETs and been on ETVs. But that was obviously very anecdotal.

    If anything, Dr Steven Greer has brought evidence of the cover up of said evidence more so than anyone in the field. For that alone, he should be given credit for as we work towards disclosure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018 at 6:33 PM
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  14. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Adept

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    "Inter-dimensional (UFO) type"???? We are talking here about deduction deduced from a deduced deduction and multiplied with at least factor of Two. To use your style, can you provides some hard experimental evidence of these "inter-dimensional" worlds?

    General Relativity on its own is sufficient to explain UFO propulsion. No need for multiples of deduced deductions.

    That's a safest way to rebuff. Obviously, Dr. Greer is never going to reveal his motives. Suffice to say that he's constantly boasting of his contacts with military, particularly one star generals and higher. It wouldn't be incredulous that these generals asked him for a small favor, because military needs to constantly mislead public about UFOs.

    Just yesterday I listened to a good interview done by George Knapp, where he talked how Stanton Freedman forced, through FOIA, release of some CIA documents and found they CIA had doesens of journalist on it's payroll who's only job was to create confusion among ufo researchers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018 at 6:13 PM
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  15. Zeke

    Zeke Noble

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    Sorry lost me here. The ITH (inter or trans-dimensional hypothesis) simply states they come from another dimension (behind or layered under our visible physical universe). I don't see the myriad of deductions you list.
     
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  16. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Adept

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    Multiple / Parallel / etc. universe hypothesis comes from unproven speculation in quantum mechanics and later string theory. So it all started by some unproven QM deductions, which are loved by pop-culture and really good to entertain people at parties etc. Ultimatelly, using any unproven stuff doubles on UFO confusion, because UFOs are already strugling with credibility.

    That's why we should stick with tried and tested stuff, like EM, GR and QM. Otherwise, we would be doubling up our own burden of proof, we would need not just to proove that UFOs exist, but that parallel worlds exit as well. Double trouble.
     
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  17. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    No...The issue is with Greer, which I still stand by my statement which was directly pointed at Greer, he has no evidence of anything he says, he just talks and collects money...He offers no more to the credible serious research of UFOs and that technology than you or I could...

    ...
     
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  18. ExceedinglyBrilliant

    ExceedinglyBrilliant Adept

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    I was on Marco Island and Vero Beach with Greer at his invitation. These sightings have nothing to do with flares, parachutes, mil ops or anything of that sort.
     
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  19. ExceedinglyBrilliant

    ExceedinglyBrilliant Adept

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    Every doctor should always remain a doctor, every lawyer a lawyer, every etc etc etc = illogical

    I don't think Greer makes any qualms about connecting dots possibly linking traditionally hardware-based UFO thinking, to psychological phenomena - and that's not so inconsistent with the road modern physicists seem to be heading down as well. The phenomena is broadly diverse and may not be adequately comprehended from a strictly technological viewpoint.

    As far as the more cuckoo claims attributed to him, I've never heard him make such in the dozen or so interviews I've listened to over the years - nor is there anything like that at the Disclosure website (that I know of). If he thinks such outlandish statements might undermine the credibility of his effort why would he make them?

    I don't know the full content/context of the examples you give, Ozman, but the "Smear" blurb did cover their six by including an "If this is true" qualifier. Sources aren't necessarily any more credible than their intended targets.

    As far as "real" Congressional hearings go, why would they stop just because somebody staged an NPC "circus?" There's so much fringe kookiness attached to the UFO issue already, all they'd have to do is ignore it and let the mainstream media deal with the event.
     
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  20. Standingstones

    Standingstones See you in heaven, if you make the list.

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    As you are friendly with Greer, did he make you sign a nondisclosure statement?
     

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