UFOs: skeptics, disclosure, and contact

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
IDK who Paul Schneider is but I seriously doubt those MJ12 docs are real. bear in mind that those who got them sort of disapppeared and one of them fessed up to being a shill for AFOSI in public. The Air Force wanted them - and everyone else in the ufo community - to believe that there were secrets being hidden.

Grush has made statements on the record in secure rooms and who knows if we'll ever know what that's about but for now he's in a category all his own. If anything he may simply being following orders.
 
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Rick Hunter

Celestial
IDK who Paul Schneider is but I seriously doubt those MJ12 docs are real. bear in mind that those who got them sort of disapppeared and one of them fessed up to being a shill for AFOSI in public. The Air Force wanted them - and everyone else in the ufo community - to believe that there were secrets being hidden.

Grush has made statements on the record in secure rooms and who knows if we'll ever know what that's about but for now he's in a category all his own. If anything he may simply being following orders.

My bad, Phil Schneider. The guy who had the aliens vs. special forces story in the 1990's. Allegedly murdered to shut him up, personally I think he wasn't playing with a full deck.

I believe the MJ-12 docs were created by AFOSI and may contain some real information. Whoever created those knew what the hell they were doing and had access to bona fide documents and information to support them. Stanton Friedman did an outstanding job proving just that. I think it is more probable than not that there is a group of folks who have always been in charge of governmental response to UFOs and aliens, and they do a very good job making sure that the overwhelming majority of people in government right up to the president don't know about them.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
My bad, Phil Schneider. The guy who had the aliens vs. special forces story in the 1990's. Allegedly murdered to shut him up, personally I think he wasn't playing with a full deck.

I believe the MJ-12 docs were created by AFOSI and may contain some real information. Whoever created those knew what the hell they were doing and had access to bona fide documents and information to support them. Stanton Friedman did an outstanding job proving just that. I think it is more probable than not that there is a group of folks who have always been in charge of governmental response to UFOs and aliens, and they do a very good job making sure that the overwhelming majority of people in government right up to the president don't know about them.
The CoG docs were about surviving a nuclear war, that sort of thing. So they were authentic but modified and misrepresented.

Getting tired of anonymous sources and 'insiders' who dribble information. The fact that Coulthart has any dealings with Corbell & Co whatsoever (and maybe I am wrong but I hear what was said on his podcast) makes me think he is just the most recent target of the same old game.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
.... it just figures. my actual full retirement date is in 2029. I thought all along illegal aliens would screw that up, I just had no idea how right I was :)
 

nivek

As Above So Below

Oil rigger spots UFOs 'hovering for 10 minutes' above the deck before 'zooming off in an instant' on the Mexican coast where locals believe is a submerged alien base

A pair of UFOs were spotted soaring over an oil rig off the coast of Mexico where locals have claimed is home to a secret underwater alien base.

A crew member of the vessel near Tampico snapped two images - one showing a saucer-shaped craft with glowing lights circling the base and the other with a triangular design and three lights on the bottom.

The witness said the UAPs 'hovered for what seemed like 10 minutes and then 'just zoomed off in an instant,' a source told DailyMail.om.

Locals of Tampico believe the underwater extraterrestrial base has been protecting them from hurricanes for more than 50 years.


(More on the link)

A pair of UFOs were spotted soaring over an oil rig off the coast of Mexico where locals have claimed is home to a secret underwater alien base. A crew member of the vessel near Tampico snapped two images


One image shows a saucer-shaped craft with glowing lights circling the base


While the oil rigger said the other UFO was triangular, the only clue about its designed is how the three lights at its base are positioned


.
 

Todd Feinman

Show us the satellite pics...

Oil rigger spots UFOs 'hovering for 10 minutes' above the deck before 'zooming off in an instant' on the Mexican coast where locals believe is a submerged alien base

A pair of UFOs were spotted soaring over an oil rig off the coast of Mexico where locals have claimed is home to a secret underwater alien base.

A crew member of the vessel near Tampico snapped two images - one showing a saucer-shaped craft with glowing lights circling the base and the other with a triangular design and three lights on the bottom.

The witness said the UAPs 'hovered for what seemed like 10 minutes and then 'just zoomed off in an instant,' a source told DailyMail.om.

Locals of Tampico believe the underwater extraterrestrial base has been protecting them from hurricanes for more than 50 years.


(More on the link)

A pair of UFOs were spotted soaring over an oil rig off the coast of Mexico where locals have claimed is home to a secret underwater alien base. A crew member of the vessel near Tampico snapped two images


One image shows a saucer-shaped craft with glowing lights circling the base


While the oil rigger said the other UFO was triangular, the only clue about its designed is how the three lights at its base are positioned


.
I hope those aren't reflections!
 

Todd Feinman

Show us the satellite pics...
Admittedly, these days I don't meticulously read every last word in reports that come out, or try and dissect the latest statements about the phenomenon. The folks at Metabunk are passionate about it, and that is a good thing. I'm sure they'd be happy if they ran across something they would accept as a real UFO, and so they are the real UFOlogists at the end of the day. When I went looking for answers in the old accounts I found people have had very similar encounters in the past. I don't know if I'll ever get any more satisfaction on the topic, but I am content with things now. I just want to know where they are from, and I doubt that i will find out before I die. I wonder if I will ever see one again. Lord knows the two already are so improbable and unusual in their circumstances it makes me think UFOs are a lot stranger than just nuts and bolts objects.
 

J Randall Murphy

Trying To Stay Awake
Maybe this is part of a very long and drawn out gradual disclosure, and the MJ-12 documents, Bob Lazar, and Phil Schneider are earlier parts of it. Even if the documents, Lazar, Schneider, and Grusch are bogus or mostly bogus, their employers are gauging the reactions of the rest of the government and the general public overall. Perhaps every incoming president is told some of the goods on UFOs and also that the DOD has been engaging in a decades long process of acclimating the populace to the reality of the E.T. presence.
My impression is that the UFO phenomenon has been integrated into the DOD for PSYOP and counterintelligence purposes, so any info from them that happens to correspond to the real thing, is either coincidental or for the purpose of misdirection. I seriously doubt that there is any plan to disclose anything for the sake of public interest, because it would reveal the extent to which the public has been deceived on both sides of the issue. In other words, if they told us the whole truth, their entire agenda of deception since the cold war would become transparent.
 
I think basically the same thing. We are never going to get the whole truth from them. Even in the best case, we will only get "their version of it".
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
We can - and do - speculate endlessly about what cases might or might not be real and whether the military has or doesn't have anything stashed away. But we do know for certain that in the past the military absolutely has wanted to push the narrative that they have EBEs, craft, all sorts of things being hidden away. They have gone to great lengths to do so including co-opting ufologists and driving poor Paul Bennewitz nuts. Yet at the same time also go to great lengths to deny it all. They didn't just stop doing that all of a sudden, the public interest in the subject is real and as long as it is this sort of manipulation works for their purposes; purposes unrelated to whether ET is here or not. Of the percentage that are true unknowns they really don't seem to be bothering us that much. I really don't know what to make of Grusch right now but we haven't heard from any of the other whistleblowers or precisely why the two IGs felt his case was 'credible and urgent'. We naturally want to assume it's because of the reality of ET and Disclosure because of the shocking nature of what he's said but the actual practical truth may not be that at all, it could be some aspect of national security or God knows what else. What he is saying isn't much different than the narrative Doty was peddling.

It increasingly sounds like the Reid/Bigelow partnership, AAWSAP, AATIP, Elizondo, Mellon and by extension Skinwalker were a well connected and well funded personal interest that the mainstream DoD did not and does not look favorably upon. The AARO report makes it sound like something that never got too far off the ground and in that light explains why Elizondo & Co have been promoting their involvement in a government program that the government doesn't want to acknowledge and again, we want to assume it's Disclosure but I don't think that's the case. It does serve the narrative though.

And as a gratuitous add on, did I read that part of the report right? Sounded like Art's Parts got that Army CREDA because the Army developed the material and has possession of it again. A few years ago there were endless, lengthy debates about all that and now .... we seem to have moved on.
 
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Todd Feinman

Show us the satellite pics...
Well, all of the psyops, fake documents, blurry videos and whatnot, have certainly created a lot more skeptics. If that was the goal, mission accomplished. We needed to give Elizondo and now Grusch a chance, and we have. If there is any truth to their claims, it would have been better to provide extraordinary evidence, in a manner to settle the debate, and that wasn't done.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kOT39FXstho&pp=ygUOSm9obiBncmVlbndhbGQ%3D
 

Todd Feinman

Show us the satellite pics...
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J Randall Murphy

Trying To Stay Awake
We can - and do - speculate endlessly about what cases might or might not be real and whether the military has or doesn't have stashed away.
Indeed. But at the same time, just because we ( the public ) doesn't have access to what the DOD ( or whoever "they" are ) have, that it's safe to assume that none of what they have is substantial. I thinks it's perfectly safe assume exactly the opposite, but I don't go so far as a secret Stargate type space program with ships built on alien tech etc.
But we do know for certain that in the past the military absolutely has wanted to push the narrative that they have EBEs, craft, all sorts of things being hidden away. They have gone to great lengths to do so including co-opting ufologists and driving poor Paul Bennewitz nuts. Yet at the same time also go to great lengths to deny it all. They didn't just stop doing that all of a sudden, the public interest in the subject is real and as long as it is this sort of manipulation works for their purposes; purposes unrelated to whether ET is here or not. Of the percentage that are true unknowns they really don't seem to be bothering us that much. I really don't know what to make of Grusch right now but we haven't heard from any of the other whistleblowers or precisely why the two IGs felt his case was 'credible and urgent'. We naturally want to assume it's because of the reality of ET and Disclosure because of the shocking nature of what he's said but the actual practical truth may not be that at all, it could be some aspect of national security or God knows what else. What he is saying isn't much different than the narrative Doty was peddling.
Good points.
It increasingly sounds like the Reid/Bigelow partnership, AAWSAP, AATIP, Elizondo, Mellon and by extension Skinwalker were a well connected and well funded personal interest that the mainstream DoD did not and does not look favorably upon. The AARO report makes it sound like something that never got too far off the ground and in that light explains why Elizondo & Co have been promoting their involvement in a government program that the government doesn't want to acknowledge and again, we want to assume it's Disclosure but I don't think that's the case. It does serve the narrative though.
That seems to be the case, but at the same time, going back to my earlier post, the PTB play both sides of the fence, so their grumblings and denials serve the same purpose as whatever admissions they might make — and neither of them are necessarily true. The PSYOPs seems to be well integrated into all the examples you mention — especially when it comes to Bigelow and Skinwalker.
And as a gratuitous add on, did I read that part of the report right? Sounded like Art's Parts got that Army CREDA because the Army developed the material and has possession of it again. A few years ago there were endless, lengthy debates about all that and now .... we seem to have moved on.
Interest in the phenomenon runs in cycles or "waves". Assuming that the world survives the next few years, things settle down politically and economically, no full-out disclosure happens, and the aliens don't make the first move in any big way, we'll probably see it heat-up again around 2027 - 2030 as ufology makes the transition to The Postmodern Era. We'll be looking at the same script again ( ET Contact, Disclosure, etc ) with a newer updated twist
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
It's funny to watch interviews with George W., Carter, Avril Haines, Obama, and even Trump when they are asked about UFOs. You don't have to be an AI to see the microexpressions and discomfort they exhibit. Then you look at the interview with Evelyn Trent from McMinnville, or Rex Heflin, and there is none of that.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ujAs1disEwg&pp=ygUZR2VvcmdlIHcgYnVzaCBraW1tZWwgdWZvcw%3D%3D&time=7m25s

The Shrub's comments about UFOs are at about the 7 minute mark
 
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