Mystery Machine.

Discussion in 'Unexplained Mysteries' started by 1963, May 22, 2018.

  1. 1963

    1963 Noble

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    Hi Sheltie, I was wondering if somewhere on the thread that 'Roanoke' would be mentioned... after all it is one of the 'real-life-mystery-genre's' preeminent cases and therefore well worthy of a $ to solve. :Whistle:

    Being a more civilized kind of person in being of English origin,.. :Tongue: ...unlike your good self I did not here about this splendid mystery in any history class at school. But instead I had to find it for myself in one of those brilliant magazines that I used to spend my pocket money on in those days. And to say that I found it an interesting case would be an understatement. And so of course just like any likeminded lad that had a great penchant for 'the unusual' I was greedy for more information on the mystery and whenever I saw the name Roanoke in any publishing, I had to have it. But of course however the case is presented, the basic question still has not been definitively answered and all that any of us have is conjecture. And from my own personal standpoint, I find the more sensational suggestions a mind-compelling exercise in possibilities? ... I cannot argue with anything that this guy proposes in this article .....
    What Really Happened To Roanoke History Essay ... And also as you probably know there have been a number of similar mysteries that wreak with the same smell of fascination such as The Village Of Hoer Verde case from 1923 and The Anjikuni Lake Incident from 1930.
    What do you suppose happened at Roanoke Sheltie? ... and what about the two that I mentioned?

    Cheers Buddy.
     
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  2. Sheltie

    Sheltie good to the last drop

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    I'm not familiar with the two 20th century cases you mention. I'll have to look into those.

    Yes, I think there could be a lot of truth to the intermarrying theory. I've heard stories about colonists who came to the Jamestown region of the new world and reported meeting natives with characteristics such as fair skin and/or blue eyes. I think there is a tendency to think of the indigenous people in monolithic terms when in reality the individual tribes were often very different from each other in culture and temperament.

    Both sides of my family came to North America before the American Revolution and both sides contain a few Native American ancestors. The intermingling was far more common than most people realize. You would never know this from looking at me as I am very fair-skinned. Just about everyone in my family is/was very fair-skinned and there are a lot of redheads. My maternal grandmother, curiously, was very dark and looked middle eastern. We always assumed she got more of the indian blood than the rest of us.

    The tribal politics are also very fascinating. One of the tribes in my family tree, the Piscataway, for instance, were a small mostly peaceful, agrarian tribe that lived along the Chesapeake Bay. I think they were controlled by the Iriquois Confederacy but it's been a long time since I've read about this stuff. Smaller tribes were indirectly controlled by larger groups in much the same way as smaller countries are influenced today by larger countries like the US or UK.

    What I've always found interesting is that my family tree has a lot of Scotch-Irish ancestors. It's my understanding that the Scotch-Irish were actually Irish but they called themselves Scotch just to differentiate themselves from the Irish Catholics. There is only one Irish Catholic in my family tree but lots of Scotch-Irish. Apparently, it was considered almost unthinkable in colonial days for a Protestant to associate with a Catholic! Intermingling with the indians, however, was not as much of a big deal. :Whistle:

    I'm actually very surprised you did not learn about the Roanoke Colony in school as it was in effect the first attempt by England to become an empire. The Queen came to visit Virginia on the 400th anniversary of the Jamestown Colony in 2007.
     
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  3. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    a avalanche might be an explanation, as for the strange state of the bodies, well maybe animals ate some of the corpses
     
  4. coubob

    coubob Celestial

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    Thank ya, So i guess that leaves them trippin on mushrooms is the next on my list of possibilities, but why in the hell would people do that in such a inhospitable and treacherous place,maybe it was just an avalanche.
     
  5. 1963

    1963 Noble

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    Hi Humanoidlord, welcome to the thread and hope you had a good weekend matey. :Thumbsup:

    I see that you are convinced of the 'avalanche explanation' for the disaster [as once upon a time I was... but no longer] , and maybe you are on the right tracks after all, .. but I doubt it myself because there are so many faults ...or should I say inconsistencies with that assumption... From what we can tell from the naked footprints left by the group everyone seemed to descent with relative ease, so no panic driven clamber away from a perceived oncoming avalanche that typically travels at super speeds. [anything from 20 to 240 mph ..but more usually somewhere in between]
    Unless you are actually saying that the unlucky party was in fact hit by an avalanche whilst in their tent? [which would explain why the tent was frantically cut open from the inside. ... but then as I said before .. From what we can tell from the naked footprints left by the group everyone seemed to descent with relative ease,.. and surely it is highly unlikely that three people with broken ribs and flail chest would be transportable at all. And here we see several badly damaged men and a woman walk without problems or even help from any of the members of the group.? ... Unlikely to say the least wouldn't you say.
    Secondly these men and women weren't absolute novices at this type of trip , in fact they were experienced and well trained. They knew that chances of freezing to death is more likely than getting killed by an avalanche. Although the removal of the damaged tent from an exposed mountain side was out of the question, they would have known that they had to retrieve all their warm clothes in order to survive even a brief period out of their tent.
    And finally if you see on the pictures on February 1st on the left and February 26th (according to Vadim Brusnicin who is sitting on a slope of the mountain with his back toward the camera man) on the right you can see part of the tourist gear that kept its vertical position on the slope weeks after the tragedy stroke. Furthermore the entrance of the tent is clearly elevated. Only the middle portion collapse probably due to hasty escape or weigh of snow simply collecting on there.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ... And along with all of these facts that casts doubt on the avalanche theory there's also the verifiable facts that The Kholat Syakhl mountain is not very tall and it is certainly not very steep, and perhaps what is more damning for the theory is that the tourist own diaries report on that very day that there was "a fairly thin snow cover" on the slope!
    ... and so HL, while i'm not saying that the 'avalanche theory' is definitely out of the question.... I would say that it was highly unlikely mate.

    Btw .... which animals ate which corpses HL? ... :Unsure: ... Have you heard something that I haven't?

    Cheers Buddy.
     
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  6. Niku120

    Niku120 Honorable

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    Damn strange I doubt the avalanche idea. Something else happened skeptics will say otherwise of course.
     
  7. 1963

    1963 Noble

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    OK then, it seems that the appetite for discussion on the Dyatlov incident has somewhat waned , and as nobody else has deemed it a frugal investment to toss a measly Dollar into the Mystery Machine's rent kitty [misers the lot of ya!] then rather than let the thread go down without a fight... I rummaged around in my old pair of tartan jodhpurs and scrounged up two old furry Murray Mints, a slightly bent hairclip, the long lost Nécessaire Fabergé egg and a single Gold dollar coin dated 1849 that i'll use to finance my next trip to curiosity-quench-land ... and travel to [but not until Sunday because I promised to take the grandkids to their favourite water park tomorrow. ... in fact I may as well leave it until Monday-week and then it will serve as both mystery exploration and on-the-day-celebration to mark the 170th anniversary of ]... The 1848 Daedalus Sea Serpent Sighting! Daedalus and the Deep – the real sea serpent mystery Where Be Monsters? The Daedalus Sea Serpent and the War for Credibility—The Appendix The zoologist


    [​IMG]

    ...It is an old mystery [170 years on the six of August to be precise] that grabbed my attention many moons ago when I first saw the picture and read the story in one of those monthly periodicals that I used to love to immerse myself into as a boy.
    Since those innocent post-formative years I have read a whole lot more of similar claimed encounters with 'real-life sea and other watery body serpents', and for some reason I am inclined to lean toward the 'Sea Variety' of serpent as being the most likely of the two as regards believability. But also I give no credence whatsoever to the 'paranormal aspect' prescribed to these elusive [if not mythical] creatures from the deep. Instead over the years I have developed the firm notion that most, if not all of these fascinating beasts can be labelled as rare 'living Oarfish Sightings'.
    This rare species of very real unusual looking fish is the world's longest bony fish, reaching a record measured length of 11 m (36 ft); however, unconfirmed specimens of up to 17 m (56 ft) have been reported. So bearing in mind that they are an elusive and comparatively scares known species of fish, who can say what size the largest ones that have not been recorded might reach,... and just what a sight they were to glimpse for the sailors of old!
    [​IMG]


    We have only discovered 14 percent of all species on Earth - Geek.com
    Are There Still Undiscovered Sea Monsters?

    .... My point being,.. that if when I get on-board the Daedalus a week on Monday, I do not witness the sighting of 'a crackingly-big Oarfish', [or some other as yet unknown serpent shaped fish] ... then I might just fetch back a little photographic and video evidence of 'monsters'! ..... Anybody fancy coming along for the ride? .... i'll bring sandwiches and a flask of tea. :Thumbsup:

    Cheers All.
     
  8. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    those are indeed oarfishes
     
  9. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    The oarfish hypothesis is a good one but a couple years ago reading the report below and doing some follow up reading I think what the Daedalus encountered was a Sei whale which are slender and usually at least fifty feet in length dark grey in colour mainly...These animals can skim feed and move as witnessed, this magnificent creature should be considered a very good possibility...

    [​IMG]

    The 1848 ‘Enormous Serpent’ of the Daedalus Identified

    ...
     
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  10. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    another good possibility
     
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  11. 1963

    1963 Noble

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    698
    Hi Nivek, and thanks for the reply buddy.
    And yes I've seen that "explanation" [ aka...'possibility-masquerading-as-a-case-breaker'] before, and this is one of those scenarios in which i'm always afraid of becoming known as one of those ignoble type of anti-prosaic-explanation type of guys that would argue that black is white rather than accept 'a reasonable explanation' from someone that has letters after his/her name. ... Which I can assure you I am not!, if the evidence fits the explanation then I will happily accept and be grateful for the enlightenment. But if not... then I will not capitulate my own impression of the data. And this instance is one of those where I think that the "expert" from CSI has fudged his way through most of the contradictory testimony from the actual witnesses in order to make his own conclusions fit the bill, so to speak. [which in my experience is the general practice of that site ... don't get me wrong, sometimes I agree with their conclusions to certain cases... but more often I find their unreasonable reliance on the old cherry-picking of testimony and their incessant practice of 'appealing to authority' laughable,... in a disbelieving kind of way.]
    ie... I think it stands to reason that there are many aspects of the original testimony that have to be brushed aside, diluted or just ignored for this anomalous creature that was witnessed by the crew of the Daedalus one hundred and seventy years ago to be conclusively identified as being 'a twenty minute encounter with a Sei Whale' which contrary to factoid number 1 was not a mysterious and unknown commodity at the time. .... Sei Whales just as all large whales had been hunted by whaling ships of all countries since man was able to take to the sea with harpoons a very long time before the Daedalus was built! .. The fact is that not many of the really big whales were ever caught before the invention of the explosive harpoons later on in that century [from 1885 onwards 14,295 Sei Whales were taken].
    ...My point here being, that rather than being ignorant to the sight of such a whale , the chances art that such salty seamen as was the commanders and crew of this grand old frigate would have been able to identify a whale ... who knows perhaps even if not directly , some of the crew may even had whaling connections? ..And directly from the chief officer on watch Lt Drummond...
    The next fact to be ignored or brushed aside being the contemporary testimony is that of the 'on-the-scene' witnesses description of the 'creature'... such as the glaringly obvious anomaly in the 'Galbraith cast iron explanation' which is that all on-site testimony was that the creature was in fact ..
    ... and in every reference book that I've seen about the description of the Sei Whale is that it is ..
    or alternatively
    and never the dark brown colour that glares out of the testimony. ... and what about the bell ringing description that the actual witnesses gave that set my sights on the 'Oarfish'? ... that of course along with the extreme length [as opposed to bulk] ... snakelike as attested to... there is for me at least, the striking undilutable fact that the witnesses reported that the creature had ..
    ...[erm... something like that on the Oarfish perhaps?] ... There is probably more to be said about the possibility of errors in Galbraith's suppositions [nay... insistences] but these few are what come of the top of my head, and i'm not even saying that his "explanation" is definitely wrong and that my own notion is correct, but I am [as you probably already know] of the disposition that I just cannot stand by while others accept a 'possibly-flawed explanation' of the true nature of a 'real life mystery' without opening my big mouth! lol.
    ...And for the sake of even handed appraisal of competing theories I searched the net for examples that might bolster Mr Galbraith's supposition and the closest that I could genuinely come up with was this YT video of the Sei Whale passing close to a boat in the middle of the ocean....

    .... and still find it hard to believe that , that crew of salty old seamen wouldn't have recognised the creature to be a whale of some kind, and not a "snake-like serpent with a horses mane!

    ...Alternatively, I would like to remind any open minded folk that the 'Oarfish explanation' that I champion is by no means a new theory. It was proposed long ago near the time of this incident and many other "Sea Serpent" reports back in the 19th century by the likes of British zoologist Dr Andrew Smith who voiced what remains today a popular consensus among the scientific community in The Times newspaper of London, which was published by it on 15 June 1877 when he confidently asserted:
    ... and reprinted this picture from Engraving of Bermuda's Hungary Bay giant oarfish, sketched by W.D. Munro for 3 March 1860 issue of Harper's Weekly (public domain)


    [​IMG]

    FROM BERMUDA.; More of the
    Myth or Fact: Oarfish Sea Serpent?
    Sei Whale

    :Tongue: Lol that was a long winded way of saying that I disagree with the certainty of Mr. Galbraith's "Case Closed" assertion in this ancient incident I know mate. ... And he may still be right....But the crux is that I have a bugbear about these CSI "Cut n' Dried Closed Cases!" when for me at least, ... they are not!

    Cheers Buddy.
     
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  12. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Its possible this sighting was of some unknown creature, probably still unknown to us, living deep in the ocean and rarely coming to the surface but does on occasion like the oarfish and giant squid do...

    ...
     
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  13. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    My friends from our camp each year at Burning Man (our camp was called Karmic Savings and Om), asked me to make a full-scale digital mural so they could have it wrapped on the camp's van, the Karmic Mystery Machine, so I took the concept of The Mystery Machine from Scooby Doo and modernized it to better suit the Burning Man festival. Here's the result, which can still be seen driving around San Francisco:

    Karmic Mystery Machine.Grand Canyon.jpg

    The mural is a collage of images of my sculptures and drawings, and photos of the people in our camp having fun at Burning Man the previous year, a few astronomy images in the back, and set against my friend Charley's digital landscape mural in the front. Here's the original file so you can make out the details:

    Karmic Mystery Machine Art --Driver Side.jpg

    If you look closely there's an image of The Mystery Machine from Scooby Doo about halfway down and near the front on the left side.

    It's so much fun to ride around San Francisco in that thing - people light up wherever we go as we drive by, and he gets sweet notes on his windshield once in awhile.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
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  14. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    4,327
    possible
    john keel had a interesting theory: sea serpents are a still unknow specimen of mega-eel that grow meters in size
     
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  15. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Well here is an interesting read about this mysterious case...What do you think?...

    Strange Debris Found at Dyatlov Pass, Site of Mysterious Deaths

    It’s one of history’s great unsolved and conspiracy-generating mysteries. In 1959, the frozen bodies of a nine-member ski-hiking expedition were found partially undressed near their Ural Mountain campsite in an area whose indigenous name means “Dead Mountain.” The official reason given for the skiers’ strange behavior (like slicing open their tent from the inside) was “natural force they were unable to overcome,” the investigation documents were classified and the public was banned from the area for three years, which irritated those who heard witnesses had seen fireballs that could have been Russian missile tests, energy orbs or alien spaceships. Now, nearly 60 years later, a possible piece of solid evidence may have been found … with its own discovery also shrouded in mystery and intrigue.

    [​IMG]

    A view of the tent as the rescuers found it on Feb. 26, 1959. (public domain)

    The latest piece in this mysterious Dyatlov pie begins in 2008 when a tourist claims to have found a large chunk of metal near the site. The 3-foot-by-3-foot (one square meter) piece was either too heavy or perhaps too frightening for this person to bring back in 2008, so it remained there until this year when URA.Ru reported that an expedition had returned to the remote location using GPS coordinates kept by the finder and retrieved it.

    “It seems easy only the first 100 meters – in fact it is hard to carry and very uncomfortable. We even at that time hardly managed to deliver it, although we specially prepared it.”

    Alexander Zarubin told URA.Ru reported on the expedition for URA.Ru (report here with numerous pictures of the chunk, the area and the team) and says that after the difficult retrieval, it was delivered to Yuri Kountsevich, head of the Dyatlov Foundation dedicated to maintaining the Dyatlov Museum and continuing the investigation of the unsolved mystery. Kountsevich’s initial analysis, along with others who have looked at it, is that the metal is part of a rocket fuel tank, possibly from an intercontinental ballistic UR-100.

    Does this metal fragment help solve the mysterious 1959 deaths of the skiers on Dyatlov Pass? Well, it fits the theory that the Russian military was conducting tests (not a real surprise) and a secret missile crashed in the area and its secret cargo may have been responsible for the radiation detected on the bodies and their clothing. It might also lend credence to the theory that the skiers were involved with the tests, possibly working with the KGB – a theory based on reports that some of their diaries and film rolls (one of which may have had photos of the strange orange fireballs) were missing.

    Why did these experienced hikers tear their tent from the inside and got barefoot in the snow, some dying of exposure, others from injuries including a broken skull, two broken ribs, and a missing tongue (you read that right). The chunks of metal sheds no light on this or the rumors of a Yeti attack, an avalanche or a rare weather condition known as Kármán vortex street that can generate very-low-frequency sound waves that could have caused psychological problems that drove the hikers mad, or at least to do odd non-hiker things.

    [​IMG]

    Memorial to the hikers

    No other pieces of metal were found. Could have been placed there deliberately to distract investigators who may be getting too close to the real reason behind the Dyatlov Pass mystery?

    Or is it just a coincidental piece of the many rockets and missiles launched by the USSR and Russia?

    Will we ever find out?

    .
     
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  16. Toroid

    Toroid Founding Member

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    6,967
    Here's a photo of what they found.
    Odd Debris Found at Dyatlov Pass - Coast to Coast AM
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    i think its unrelated, its very likely a piece of sattelite debris, like this one:
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. coubob

    coubob Celestial

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    We may soon find out who the Zodiac Killer is.
    Just a day after Sacramento police arrested the man they believe to be the Golden State Killer, a serial rapist and murderer who terrorized California in the 1970s and ’80s, detectives revealed that genealogy websites had helped lead them to the suspect. According to the Sacramento Bee, detectives in the state are currently using the family-tree tracing technology in at attempt to find one other infamous serial murderer: the Zodiac Killer.

    In the late 1960s, the Zodiac Killer killed at least five people in Northern California, and is perhaps best known for the tormenting letters and cryptograms he sent to the police and media. While his identity was never discovered, detectives are trying out new methods to find him.

    According to the Sacramento Bee, a few months back, the Vallejo police submitted multiple envelopes containing letters from the Zodiac Killer to undisclosed genealogy websites, where they will undergo a new type of DNA analysis. Results could come back as soon as in the next few weeks, and “almost certainly by summer.”

    “If we get a good profile, then you start tracking back,” Vallejo detective Terry Poyser said. “It really comes down to DNA. Without it, you have nothing. It’s a 50-years-old case.”

    While Poyser believes the killer is a man named Arthur Leigh Allen, a former elementary-school teacher and convicted child molester who is now deceased, he seeks a clear answer before his plan to retire next year.

    “They were confident they would be able to get something off it,” Poyser said.
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. coubob

    coubob Celestial

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    Another cold case solved thanks to DNA and genealogy websites.California man arrested in 10 'horrific' cold-case rapes
    A married 58-year-old man has been arrested in connection with at least 10 rapes across Northern California between 1991 and 2006 in what's known as the NorCal Rapist case, Sacramento police announced Friday.

    Roy Charles Waller of Benicia was arrested without incident at the University of California in Berkeley, where he worked for 25 years as a safety specialist in the office of environment, health and safety.

    District Attorney Anne Marie Schubert said her office used DNA and genealogy websites to zero in on Waller.

    His arrest comes five months after police used the same tactic to arrest 72-year-old former police officer Joseph DeAngelo in the Golden State Killer case, which is connected to at least a dozen rapes and killings throughout the state in the 1970s and 1980s.

    "DNA is the silent witness to the truth," Schubert said at a news conference announcing Waller's arrest.

    Waller is suspected of raping women in six Northern California counties, from Sacramento to Chico.

    He's scheduled to be arraigned Monday in Sacramento Superior Court. It's unclear if he has an attorney.

    Detective Avis Beery, who worked the case for 12 years, said she has been "waiting a really long time for this day to come."

    "I never gave up hope," she said, adding that she called one of the victims of the NorCal Rapist on Friday morning to tell her the news.

    "She was overcome and over the top with emotion and happiness to see that this person is in custody and that no one else has to worry about him anymore," Beery said. "The victims in this case can stop looking over their shoulders."

    She described the NorCal Rapist's modus operandi, saying that he typically would break into houses late at night, often when women were asleep.

    "He would overcome them, he would bind them, and then repeatedly sexually assault them," she said.

    Sometimes he would kidnap the women and force them to withdrawal money from ATMs, and sometimes stole their personal items.

    Sacramento Police Chief Daniel Hahn called the crimes "horrific," saying the victims were terrorized for hours at a time.

    "There's one less dangerous predator on our streets," he said.
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. coubob

    coubob Celestial

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