UFOs: skeptics, disclosure, and contact

pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Well, for sure I am really sick of the same old crowd we've been hearing from and that is an incontrovertible fact. Elizondo, Eric Davis and that stupid Wilson memo, Hal Puthoff, George Knapp, Jeremy Corbell and so on. They are not helping anyone other than themselves although admittedly without them and the NY Times AARO probably would not have happened.

When it comes to ufology I am very cautious to assume anything.

Part of the reason I say this is our old girlfriend Patty and the PGF. Bigfoot interest is just as full of sincere witnesses, poor photography, hoaxers, lunatics, attention and profit seekers, etc. We've heard from the guy who 'made the suit' and from the man who wore it and about Patterson's motivations. All the parts and pieces of the story were out there but it wasn't until Bill Munns (in my opinion) saw data others failed to because he has a professional background that lent itself to the task. That is a very interesting story and I've recommended his book here in the forum but the reality of the PGF isn't my point. It's that in all the decades of hububbery the Sasquatch interest has been there have been lots of theories built on assumptions that ultimately proved to be false.

In the Jack the Ripper thread I mentioned another book that did the same thing. Fresh perspective, new data and all the pieces suddenly snap into place. I know being proselytized by a single book on topics like that sounds silly and my response to that is 'go read the books'. In that vein I think the same thing might be said about Amelia Earhart this year or next.

I'm not waiting for a book to explain the truth about UFOs to me, I just don't know what to make of what I've heard recently
 
Rick Hunter

Rick Hunter

Celestial
I believe in the UFO phenomenon, and just within my lifetime I can see that the majority of the populace have been shifting to believing it is real. I think that when government disclosure does happen (and I don't know when that will be) it will be rather underwhelming since it just validates what most people already believe. They may in fact not really have much to disclose, but that won't keep people from speculating about what they are holding back. In any event, there is no way for us to know for sure.
 
Todd Feinman

Todd Feinman

Show us the satellite pics...
I don't think the US government will ever come clean about what they know about UFOs. If as the Wilbur Smith Memo suggests, they have a higher classification than nuclear weapons (and something like that would), they would have a death grip on the information, remains (if any), etc. I don't think they could possibly be our technology or an adversary's, for a number of reasons listed before.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I think that AARO report painted AATIP in the correct light for a change - a personal interest program within the government.
John B Alexander wrote a book about his experiences doing exactly that and he came to the conclusion that there was no huge conspiracy that he could find. I don't automatically take every word he produces as gospel but he seems cut from a different bolt of cloth than most, especially Elizondo. His writing is a bit dry but what he is saying is believable enough. I would not doubt that had he chose to do so he could've peddled his experiences into an attention getter but beyond book engagements he did not.

He reminds me a bit of Ruppelt - was literally was there, did that and formed his own conclusions. We not like or agree with them but there they are, part of the story like everything else.

There's an exponential difference between what Lue has done and David Grusch. The former is one of many who is only in it for themselves and you might argue have done harm to having the real 'conversation' he keeps talking about. To me the latter suggests either a patriot, possibly misguided, or someone acting under orders as Richard Doty claims he was. All sorts of implications there that I imagine time will tell upon.

Of course it's about drones now. Doesn't mean everything is a drone but I thought that would be glaringly obvious.
 
Rick Hunter

Rick Hunter

Celestial
pigfarmer said:
I think that AARO report painted AATIP in the correct light for a change - a personal interest program within the government.
John B Alexander wrote a book about his experiences doing exactly that and he came to the conclusion that there was no huge conspiracy that he could find. I don't automatically take every word he produces as gospel but he seems cut from a different bolt of cloth than most, especially Elizondo. His writing is a bit dry but what he is saying is believable enough. I would not doubt that had he chose to do so he could've peddled his experiences into an attention getter but beyond book engagements he did not.

He reminds me a bit of Ruppelt - was literally was there, did that and formed his own conclusions. We not like or agree with them but there they are, part of the story like everything else.

There's an exponential difference between what Lue has done and David Grusch. The former is one of many who is only in it for themselves and you might argue have done harm to having the real 'conversation' he keeps talking about. To me the latter suggests either a patriot, possibly misguided, or someone acting under orders as Richard Doty claims he was. All sorts of implications there that I imagine time will tell upon.

Of course it's about drones now. Doesn't mean everything is a drone but I thought that would be glaringly obvious.
Click to expand...

My conclusions exactly. Far as Grusch goes, I think he believes what he is saying. He may realize he miscalculated just how irretrievably deep he would plunge into this mess, and is having second thoughts for any number of reasons. Maybe he was acting under somebody's orders, and thought that he would be able to just testify and then go back to normal life. Now, he will never be able to do that.

I believe the basics of Grusch's story. We are being visited by someone from somewhere, and this has been happening for all of humanity's existence. Parties within governments have evidence of visitation, and they aren't enthusiastic to let it out. In the past they have intimidated others and maybe used violence to keep it under wraps. These days, the keepers of secrets still don't like the idea of letting it out but they also know it's going to happen and that nobody is going to believe their laughable Condon Report style statements any longer.

One more thing about Grusch. He strikes me as someone who does well in the military because he is extremely good at following orders and respecting the chain of command. He functions best in a highly structured world where there isn't alot of personal choice, even on things like what clothes to wear and what time to go to bed. Whatever he is told to do, he is going to carry it out really well. But in civilian life, he doesn't know what to do with himself. He probably feels pretty lost right now, he has done this big life changing thing and there is no superior to give him orders.
 
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pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Typically I have my nose in an unrelated book and found something that reminds me of this topic. I wish they'd appoint someone like Mrs. Zubatsky as the head of AARO

“From Jerry Zucker’s Commencement speech at The University of Wisconsin Madison, Wisconsin, 2003

One day, when I was a kid, our house caught fire. A large section of the wood-shingle roof was burning as the fire trucks pulled up. The firemen ran into the backyard with a large hose and began assembling their metal ladders and positioning them against the house.

Mrs. Zubatsky was our next-door neighbor, and at the time she was standing on her upstairs porch taking in the laundry. She watched anxiously as the firemen struggled with their ladders. Suddenly she leaned over the balcony and shouted down to the professional firefighters, “Forget the ladders! Just point the hose at the fire!”

The firemen, to their credit, responded immediately. They dropped their ladders, pointed the hose at the fire, and extinguished the blaze in about forty seconds.

There are two morals in this story: One, never assume that just because it’s someone’s job, they know how to do it. And two, don’t let yourself be intimidated by professionals and their uniforms.”

— Surely You Can't Be Serious: The True Story of Airplane! by David Zucker, Jim Abrahams, et al.
 
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