a curious device

Discussion in 'Alternative Technologies & Energetics' started by spacecase0, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

    here is a discriptiion of a curious device.
    I started by building an almost standard whimhurst machine
    it is in a frame solid enough to let me set it any direction I want.
    I used galvanized steel segments (not sure how the iron changed what it did if it made any changes at all), had no idea back then that they work just fine without segments (they just are not self starting that way). no idea why I did not use copper foil, but likely the hardware store did not have any.
    glued them on with clear acrylic paint
    the disks are about 16 inches across , the segments (if viewed as a disk) are about 15 inches across on the outside and 6 inches on the inside. I think there are 48 segments with about 1/8 inch gaps between them (likely to small of a gap).
    I had 3 arrangements to spin the disks. spinning at the same speed (same belt), spinning each disk with its own motor and motors wired in parallel (so they are close to the same speed), and just like the previous one, but motors wired in series (disks not that close in speed). motors are the ones used to run the powerful remote control cars, so it can spin the disks quite fast. and I built a custom (8V 30A) variable voltage power supply for them with a simple amp meter on it.
    when I first set it up I wired the brushes just like a whimhurst machine. (each disk is half one polarity and half the other)
    but for whatever reason (long forgotten), I wanted one disk one polarity, and the other disk the other polarity. so I took the theory of how it worked and changed the arrangement to work that way.
    now it did give me the one polarity on each disk that I wanted, only it flipped polarity about every 1.5 seconds.
    and it did odd things near it.
    the magnetic fields near the segments when running were very strong, like enough to wipe out the magnet in a compass
    but I could tell that the magnetic field in the segments changed all the time as it ran. and seemingly it did slightly different things because of that
    it really messed with things like volt meters, the displays went all nuts, displays like that use timing to function, they do not have wires for each spot that can be activated. they have something like 9 wires on one side, they write a character, then use another set of wires to to tell what spot to write that to. so, change the character and tell it where it goes.
    that system was useless in this field.
    a watch is small enough that it did not have this issue, and digital watches ticked off time accurately over long amounts of time, but total random in about a 1.5 second window, so I tried a mechanical watch and got the same thing.
    so I mapped out this odd field. quite a few detectors could see it, but the magnetic permeability tester was the clearest one
    it was like 2 torrids that were crushed into a sphere (whatever that is called), size depended on if it was running and how long. field persisted after it was turned off, but it was smaller. usually 4 foot to about 15 foot across.
    and if you physically moved the device you got 2 of the fields, one stayed at the location and one followed the device.
    and if the fields were split, they would be linked. leave one at home with the cordless phone base in range, and take the other field with you with the cordless handset and you could seemingly go as far as you want to and still make calls crystal clear. this strikes me as quite marketable if you could figure out how to power the field from each side
    it is a bit odd to be in an empty room and watch a compass spin in circles, walk out and it reads normal, go back in and it spins. not sure if the field faded or moved, but the area had no magnetic field hours later, and was gone entirely in a few days.
    this 1.5 second toggle also affected gravity (only when it was on and running). I set up electric and magnetic shielding just to be sure that they were not changing anything in my setup. it was a small effect, but very measurable.
    so I had got the effect I wanted, just an alternating version of it...
    at some point I figured that I should just force the voltage one direction, and that should get the field to stay one direction,
    so I built a 300KV (+/-150KV) power supply. and the device had no issue with the direct current bias I had given it, and it continued to flip with that DC bias on it.
    and then I lost my place to live, so no follow up tests on that device for a long time.
    it also made copper wire have no resistance. this test was on multimeter leads.
    once exposed, took about 5 years to fade back to normal resistance
    another odd thing,
    when turning it off the amp meter on the power supply did not go to zero instantly when power was removed, it slowly dropped as the disks spun down. so I unplugged a wire on the power, DC current should not flow with only one wire, yet it did, up to 15A of DC current with just one wire connected. not sure what that means
    also tried a large magnetic field in line with the spinning shafts, I still have that coil, only I had a transformer that let me push it to 500V, could not leave it on that long like that, but it is a huge magnetic field, could have erased the neighbors VHS tapes from my house. but no effect at all from adding the magnetic field. the resistance in this wire stayed low for 20 years, it only went back to normal when I put real power through it again, so it is not like it can make useful superconductors out of copper.
    it also effected people in side this field quite a bit, and often not in a good way. strikes me as very similar to how the MAGVID was described.
    I kept this device as it was for 20 years, until now no one wanted to see it or even want it described, and the few that saw it running in the first place wanted no part of it again. it now has been reworked it for other tests.
    over the years I have taken elements of this device and tried to reproduce it with no luck. (including something almost like the MAGVID idea) there are lots of variables going with this device, remove one and it appears to not work anymore.
    so that is the curious device.
    it clearly needs some work to figure out just why it was doing what it was doing.
    • Awesome Awesome x 3
  2. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

    There’s a lot of interesting stuff in here spacecase0.

    Some of the effects that you noted could be attributable to the alternating magnetic field produced by the spark discharges of a Wimshurst machine. So it should act akin to a degausser, and interfere with the operation of electronic devices. It would be interesting to compare the effects produced by a degausser, with the effect produced by your machine.

    But some of the effects you’re describing seem to be highly anomalous, like the dual fields and the coupling between them. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything like that before, and I can’t think of any prosaic explanation. It sounds like the fields were entangled, though how that could be possible is a complete mystery. I think the best way to test that effect would be to quantify it precisely: you could take a radio transmitter and a digital signal meter and chart the amplitude of the signal both with and without the presence of the two fields, thereby quantifying the effect precisely, across a range of frequencies. If you quantify the effect that way, it would be worthy of an academic paper and I think it would inspire a great deal of scientific interest. Some of the other effects you’ve described could fall into the same category. It’s hard to say without more details and some experimental controls.

    If it were my project, the first order of business would be to restore the device to its original state so you can observe these effects again. I'd forget about making improvements to it, I'd focus on duplication of the exact configuration that last worked. Because without being able to replicate such effects, no further study is possible – and they need to be studied more closely, and ideally, quantified.

    Assuming that you can do that, and observe these effects on demand again, the next step for me would be to find an open-minded and brilliant scientist in your vicinity to demonstrate the effects and help you quantify them and implement some scientific protocols, to sift the mundane effects (like the known effects of AC magnetic fields) from the unknown/anomalous effects (like the apparent field entanglement phenomenon), and then focus on the truly anomalous effects.

    This way, you may find that all of the effects that you’ve observed are explainable somehow, or you might discover that some of these effects are truly new phenomena. And in either case, you’d gain a deeper understanding of what’s going on. And you’d be able to quantify any new anomalous effects, which is the first step to modeling those effects so you can develop a phenomenological explanation of them. Rigorous scientific study might also reveal new effects, or at least new uses for the effects that you’ve already observed, which may constitute a legitimate scientific discovery, and perhaps open the door to technological applications, and merit some valuable patent applications.

    It might also be a good idea to build a second identical Wimshurst machine, and see if the fields couple. If they do, then perhaps you could end up with a system of entangled fields that could remain coupled as long as both devices are operating, sort of like an EM wormhole. Imagine how much interest you might get from defense contractors if you had a pair of devices that would permit low-energy communication from one device on an aircraft, to a remote device at air traffic control, without broadcasting a strong enough signal in-between for interception by adversaries. We wouldn’t have to worry about Iran taking control of one of our drones again, for starters.

    I’m just speculating, but it’s fun to do when you extrapolate anomalous results like these to the application level.

    I’d say that this merits a far greater level of scientific scrutiny. If you can replicate these effects again, then you can do that. It sounds like a lot of fun to do, so it shouldn’t be hard to find a bright scientist in your area to help you out, once you can demonstrate these effects again.

    Good luck, and thanks for sharing!
    • Awesome Awesome x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

    I did my best to eliminate errors from EM noise and the like,
    I changed configurations back to a standard whimhurst machine to test, it has all of the sparks the other configuration did, and the meter and watches were just fine, have tried the meter near degaussing hardware and it is fine, have often used it near radio transmitters and it is fine (unlike many other meters), shielding had no ability to stop the effect. but then again I learned that moving electrostatic fields are very hard to shield from, a copper box inside a steel box is not enough.

    I have one test almost set up now,
    trying to see if the interaction between the disks is need to make this work
    so far it does not oscillate with a ground plane between the 2 disks, but have not setup any sensors yet.
    if it fails I will put it back to original and see if it still works.

    the entanglement does seem the most fascinating as it seems to be a useful product already,
    that is if a second generator keeps the second field going, and keeps the link.
    might build a set of smaller versions to test that idea,
    I have lots of radio hardware, plenty of them with signal strength meters,
    the test you suggest should be easy. before it was no signal at all VS full signal.
    but I would want to do it through EM shielding and test much more,
    did not do it at the time due to loosing my place to live.

    not sure about getting anyone to work with me on this,.first, I live far from much of anything
    did not originally include this because it is clearly subjective and I am not even sure what to make of it.
    I have not found anyone yet that would be inside the field for any amount of time.
    the effects on people are large.
    so say you are a bit worried about x rays it might be making, it would fill the room with total paranoia, everyone would feel it strongly
    I showed the device to one person that was a somewhat good friend for about 2 years, he literally ran outside. I followed to ask what was going on, he was gone, he had no car and was about 2 miles from the nearest bus stop, so I got in my car to find him, found him at the bus stop (no idea how he got there before me in my car that left 30 seconds after him, maybe he got a ride, suppose he could have run that fast and he did not have to follow the roads, but he sure was not just walking away)
    asked him if he was ok. he said he was ok, but he had to be somewhere else, the bus showed up right then and he ran onto it. I never saw him again. This was the worst case, most people just refused to ever go to my house again or at least not with the device there.
    I was the only one that seemed to be able to be inside that field and not start having real problems. at one point I used it as a spiritual training tool for balance. if you were not in balance, you would know very fast. no one else thought this was a fun game.
    but no matter what was going on with all this, I really did have a hard time with people sticking around once they were near it. so that part was reproducible, I guess...
    could be the solution is to just build a smaller one, one were you are not going to be inside the field.
    you are right, first thing is to reproduce my own work.
    I have been trying with variations to get at what the key elements to make it run are, and doing so with no luck so far.
    I should go back to what I know works, make sure it still works,
    then build another one and make sure it still works, check for the ability for entanglement,
    then get others to go build some and see what they get.
    • Like Like x 3
  4. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

    so, I ran a test today,
    this is the same device as told of in this thread, but modified so I can see what is going on.
    I have 2 oppositely spinning disks set up with conductive segments on them and a ground plane between the 2 disks
    I have it set up to charge each disk opposite polarity. (+/- 9KV) and the ground plane at zero volts.
    when I charge the segments on the disks (yes, they are spinning when this happens) it changes my G force sensor output, when I discharge the segments it also changes the output, but the other direction.
    when it is stable state running fully charged there is no change at all on the sensor.
    if I turn off the high voltage supply, it still has capacitors charged at that point, and then I discharge one disk, it moves the G force sensor one direction till all the segments are discharged on that disk (one turn), when I discharge the other disk, it changes the other direction till all the segments are discharged (leaving no further charge in the device).
    all results were unchanged by putting a quite large magnetic field in line with the spinning shafts.
    • Awesome Awesome x 1
  5. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

    So when you say "G force sensor," do you mean an accelerometer? And have you exposed that sensor to a static magnetic field and a changing magnetic field, to see if you're detecting a purely inductive effect?

    Does this configuration of the test device seem to be exhibiting the original effects you reported? I think it's important to repeat those results for a closer analysis.
  6. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

    the sensor is an ADXL321 (Analog Devices, datasheet)
    I have exposed it to strong static magnetic fields with no change in output
    I have it shielded from electric fields and also tested that, no change,
    have not yet tested a changing magnetic field
    I also plan on setting up magnetic shielding for it
    it is about a food away from the disks now, I also plan on testing it further away as well.
    but it is an electric device, not sure I will ever fully trust its output near this device,
    going to test it with purely mechanical hardware next. (like I did years ago with the first tests)

    this does appear to be doing part of what it did before, but that is what I was going for, trying to figure out what elements had what effects, to much going on at once before.
    some of my detectors I had before have broke over the years, so I am trying to get them working again.
    will take me a while to get it all running again.
    will post as I have updates.
    • Awesome Awesome x 2
  7. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

    That's a good idea - I see that this accelerometer works by measuring a very small electrical voltage differential, so a modest induced electrical current via a rapidly changing magnetic field could easily produce a false reading. A mechanical accelerometer made of nonmagnetic material would be a good test.

    It would be smart to put an electromagnet near that sensor and see what happens when you rapidly charge it and discharge it, to see if you can replicate your readings that way - that's a much easier test than building a nonmagnetic accelerometer from scratch.
  8. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

    because you asked,
    just tried the sensor in a ~0.1T magnetic field getting turned on and off,
    if I turn up the power over about 1/2 second, I saw no change at all.
    if I just clicked it on (somewhere in 1/120 of a second), it altered the reading 0.1mv for a moment
    the 0.1Mv is also the lowest amount I can read on that meter, and it does move around on its own on that lowest reading, so not sure it is meaningful. also, I was seeing readings in the 5mv range when seeing that effect, so 0.1mv is not really enough to account for what I saw, especially when looking at this field being much larger than the one created by the high voltage.
    I did twist the wires from my sensor to the meter, but did not do that great of a job of it, so seems like it could easily be induction messing with that number.

    mechanical test next.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

    tried putting it back to the original configuration
    it hardly runs as a standard whimhurst machine anymore...
    seems as if there might be dust on the disks that is to conductive or something
    it was always hard to start in the configuration were it did neat things,
    but now it appears to be not possible at all
    will keep trying, but it looks like it will need new disks to work again as it use to.
    but I don't have the hardware to build that again.
    will report back if I get it working again.
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  10. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

    when looking for physical verification for a device on the web,
    I found a theoretical work on how the device I built might be messing with gravity, here it is
    might be better for some than the other theory that predicts the same hardware to alter gravity, even though it predicts it with an entirely other frame of reference
    the write up of the verification of either group's physical test seems to have vanished from the web.
    would seem that only thing we have left on the web is the letters written at the time in jumbled order
    easier to verify the devices said to have been built than what I had built.
    so I am going to go do that and give up what I was working on.

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