Mass Shooting in Las Vegas

[CasualBystander]

Dundee, August...

"Sigh".

I worry about Oztralians. The fact you have to cling to the earth to avoid falling off must affect your thinking.

The high percentage of criminals in Oztralia (it was a penal colony) may require more care in policing firearms since there are more criminals outside jail than inside jail.

The US has 1/2 of the worlds firearms. Do we have 1/2 of the murders? No.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

In fact we have the 3rd lowest rate of the Americas (after Chile and Canadia).

If you kicked out the black people (responsible for over 1/2 of the murders) we would rival Canadia and be ahead of Chile. Most black murders are for "professional" reasons (crime/drugs/gangs).

Is the US murder rate great? No

Is it bad? No.

We aren't a European country. We compare very favorably to other countries in the Americas.

And besides, Switzerland, where they have automatic weapons in their homes, has half the murder rate of Sweden, where they have draconian gun laws.

And besides, as bad as Paddock was he was no Anders Behring Breivik (who killed 77).

 

[Dundee]

Dundee, August...

"Sigh".

I worry about Oztralians. The fact you have to cling to the earth to avoid falling off must affect your thinking.

The high percentage of criminals in Oztralia (it was a penal colony) may require more care in policing firearms since there are more criminals outside jail than inside jail.

OK, I think this speaks for itself.

The US has 1/2 of the worlds firearms. Do we have 1/2 of the murders? No.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

In fact we have the 3rd lowest rate of the Americas (after Chile and Canadia).

Ummmm??? Is it... a ROSE?

If you kicked out the black people (responsible for over 1/2 of the murders) we would rival Canadia and be ahead of Chile. Most black murders are for "professional" reasons (crime/drugs/gangs).

Oh dear this is a good one, is it....A Rose

Is the US murder rate great? No

We agree on one point at least.

Is it bad? No.

?????

We aren't a European country. We compare very favorably to other countries in the Americas.

And besides, Switzerland, where they have automatic weapons in their homes, has half the murder rate of Sweden, where they have draconian gun laws.

And besides, as bad as Paddock was he was no Anders Behring Breivik (who killed 77).

Not really sure what any of that last bit means but?

And all of what you have said has nothing to do with Strict Gun Laws governing who can own what guns.
I think the US is stuffed now, even if you adopted Australian gun laws tomorrow it would take you 9 generations to enforce it. You have gone past the point of no return.
I love my guns, one day I will visit the US, and on my to do list is go shoot some super cool guns at your firing ranges somewhere. What gun owner wouldn't like to have a crack at an AK47 or some other super cool gun. Does that mean I should be allowed to own one? Hell no, what if I did lose the plot. Look at the damage i could do,
laws are made to cover the worst outcome, but with a measure of practicality. I can think of no reason at all why any private citizen needs a military grade assault rifle, other than cool fun to own. I am sorry but I think the whole world looks at the US gun laws with a combination of laugh ability at the arguments to keep them, and sadness for the victims of your lax laws. He hit nearly 600 people in 10 min. had he had a normal gun not auto or semi auto, how many less people might he have hit. One of my old 303's on a good day you could get off 5 rounds in 30 seconds in perfect conditions, then a reload, maybe another 10 or 15 seconds, lets say at best 8 rounds in a minute. If it had been me went crazy that's 80 shots in 10 mins at absolute best, and I reckon the old barrel would melt like on the cartoons by then and be pointing at the floor.
I don't think this needs any more follow up, I think you helped my argument quite nicely.

 

[CasualBystander]

OK, I think this speaks for itself.


Ummmm??? Is it... a ROSE?


Oh dear this is a good one, is it....A Rose



We agree on one point at least.

?????



Not really sure what any of that last bit means but?

And all of what you have said has nothing to do with Strict Gun Laws governing who can own what guns.
I think the US is stuffed now, even if you adopted Australian gun laws tomorrow it would take you 9 generations to enforce it. You have gone past the point of no return.
I love my guns, one day I will visit the US, and on my to do list is go shoot some super cool guns at your firing ranges somewhere. What gun owner wouldn't like to have a crack at an AK47 or some other super cool gun. Does that mean I should be allowed to own one? Hell no, what if I did lose the plot. Look at the damage i could do,
laws are made to cover the worst outcome, but with a measure of practicality. I can think of no reason at all why any private citizen needs a military grade assault rifle, other than cool fun to own. I am sorry but I think the whole world looks at the US gun laws with a combination of laugh ability at the arguments to keep them, and sadness for the victims of your lax laws. He hit nearly 600 people in 10 min. had he had a normal gun not auto or semi auto, how many less people might he have hit. One of my old 303's on a good day you could get off 5 rounds in 30 seconds in perfect conditions, then a reload, maybe another 10 or 15 seconds, lets say at best 8 rounds in a minute. If it had been me went crazy that's 80 shots in 10 mins at absolute best, and I reckon the old barrel would melt like on the cartoons by then and be pointing at the floor.
I don't think this needs any more follow up, I think you helped my argument quite nicely.

1. Anders Behring Breivik killed 19 more people than Paddock. Europe (population about the same as the US) has a worse mass murderer.

2. There is no, zero, nada, zitch countries in the Americas that have a European murder rate. Period. Compared to the America's average the US is doing pretty good. I just looked at the map and the US ISN'T a European county. Australia is so bad they had to isolate it with thousands of miles of ocean. It isn't an example of anything.

3. If you stay out of the inner city (Suitland area in DC) the murder rate in the US looks like the murder rate of Canada. I've spent some quality time in Suitland in the wee hours of the morning and haven't been shot or stabbed once so even that area isn't bad if you aren't in the drug trade or a gang member.

4. There are more guns in rural areas (a lot more). Yet the cities which have much stricter gun control have about a 4 times higher murder rate.

5. Sweden has strict gun controls, and twice the murder rate of Switzerland where they keep automatic weapons in their homes. You ignore this because it doesn't fit your paradigm. Perhaps if the US allowed people to keep automatic weapons in their homes the murder rate would go down.

6. Paddock is an aberration. He is too old and well funded to be a mass murder. He is an anomaly out of 93 or so mass murderers since 1998. And Brevik was worse. The only other "mass murderer" in Paddock's age range was an uber driver who would kill some people, pick up some riders, drop them off, and kill some more people. He didn't let mass murder interfere with his day job. He was more of a serial killer than a mass murderer.

 

[3FEL9]

5. Sweden has strict gun controls, and twice the murder rate of Switzerland

Well. The ones doin the murdering around here are normally the "resident aliens". The swedes are overrun by foreign criminals, knives and alcohol are a poor match to grenades and synthetic drugs...

 

[CasualBystander]

5. Sweden has strict gun controls, and twice the murder rate of Switzerland

Well. The ones doin the murdering around here are normally the "resident aliens". The swedes are overrun by foreign criminals, knives and alcohol are a poor match to grenades and synthetic drugs...

At least you have knives and alcohol and the will to compete.

You have to drink a lot of alcohol to compete with synthetic drugs. I've seen numerous guys on K2 and the results aren't pretty.

I have the funny feeling looking at the statistics that the Swedes have found a way to lowball the crime statistics due to resident aliens. Is there anything to this theory?

 

[3FEL9]

At least you have knives and alcohol and the will to compete.

You have to drink a lot of alcohol to compete with synthetic drugs. I've seen numerous guys on K2 and the results aren't pretty.

I have the funny feeling looking at the statistics that the Swedes have found a way to lowball the crime statistics due to resident aliens. Is there anything to this theory?

Absolutely soo. Its not allowed to meassure the crimes and break it down to etnicity. The swedes just prefer to bleed like Jesus Christ on the cross..

 

[CasualBystander]

Absolutely soo. Its not allowed to meassure the crimes and break it down to etnicity. The swedes just prefer to bleed like Jesus Christ on the cross..

Someone has to explain to me why leftist socialism is such cesspool of dishonesty.

It is like reality doesn't support their world view.

 

[Dundee]

....................

But you are entirely missing the point of what is being said. It is not about murder rates, crime statistics, demographics or any of that. It is about the ready availability in the US of military grade weapons, and the proliferation of normal weapons. Crikey you can buy a pistol in 7:11 in the us cant you? And I will head you off at the pass, yes criminals will always find guns. But it is a hell of a lot easier in the US with so many of them in homes.
In Australia all weapons have to be in a Metal locked gun cabinet, bolted to the floor and wall. They keys or key codes are not to be available to anyone without a gun license. We are so strict here for safety, here is a common trick the local Firearms officer will play. Lets say I am not home and he pays a random inspection, (this is common) He will then say to a family member. oh. do you know where Dad,Husband, brother keeps the keys, I just need to inspect them. If any family member can access those guns that does not have a gun license. The firearms officer will take all your guns with him on his way out. You just lost them, and your license. The point is, that with less guns, tighter laws, and better enforcement, you reduce the likely hood of the anger heat of the moment killing.
You cant own auto or semi auto guns here in OZ, so Las Vegas would and could almost never happen. This sort of thing happens all the time in the US.
See, your missing the point. Its not about crime rates, or murders, all countries have nutters. But a nutter with a knife, or a 5 shot bolt action can do a hell of a lot less damage than a nutter with a semi auto or automatic Assault rifle.

 

[CasualBystander]

But you are entirely missing the point of what is being said. It is not about murder rates, crime statistics, demographics or any of that. It is about the ready availability in the US of military grade weapons, and the proliferation of normal weapons. Crikey you can buy a pistol in 7:11 in the us cant you? And I will head you off at the pass, yes criminals will always find guns. But it is a hell of a lot easier in the US with so many of them in homes.
In Australia all weapons have to be in a Metal locked gun cabinet, bolted to the floor and wall. They keys or key codes are not to be available to anyone without a gun license. We are so strict here for safety, here is a common trick the local Firearms officer will play. Lets say I am not home and he pays a random inspection, (this is common) He will then say to a family member. oh. do you know where Dad,Husband, brother keeps the keys, I just need to inspect them. If any family member can access those guns that does not have a gun license. The firearms officer will take all your guns with him on his way out. You just lost them, and your license. The point is, that with less guns, tighter laws, and better enforcement, you reduce the likely hood of the anger heat of the moment killing.
You cant own auto or semi auto guns here in OZ, so Las Vegas would and could almost never happen. This sort of thing happens all the time in the US.
See, your missing the point. Its not about crime rates, or murders, all countries have nutters. But a nutter with a knife, or a 5 shot bolt action can do a hell of a lot less damage than a nutter with a semi auto or automatic Assault rifle.

And Dundee promptly goes off into the weeds again.

It is about the ready availability in the US of military grade weapons, and the proliferation of normal weapons.

Unlike you, I can go down to the local Walmart and check their sales stock. No M4s, M16s, or M14s (or grenades or TOW missiles for that matter) to be seen.

The claim that military grade weapons are commonly available for sale in the US is an absolute and complete lie. Period.

You can buy full auto weapons. There is some licensing involved. The only person proven to have committed homicide with a legal full auto weapon since the 1930s was a police officer who shot an informant with a Mac 11 around 1960.

So the only people who use legally purchased full auto weapons in the US to kill people are the police.

 

[3FEL9]

Someone has to explain to me why leftist socialism is such cesspool of dishonesty.

It is like reality doesn't support their world view.

Its a case of being overly nice. Thats strange, but if you are too nice to ppl around you, nasty things could will happen.

 

[CasualBystander]

Its a case of being overly nice. Thats strange, but if you are too nice to ppl around you, nasty things could happen.

I am somewhat perplexed as to why the Swedes willing hand their white women over to the invaders to be used playthings.

It must be a Swedish cultural thing that hasn't been explained to me.

 

[3FEL9]

I am somewhat perplexed as to why the Swedes willing hand their white women over to the invaders to be used playthings.

It must be a Swedish cultural thing that hasn't been explained to me.

Ever heard that cats carry a parasitic micro organism that can be transmitted to humans.. making their new hosts do crazy acts ?
Cat parasite 'could affect human behaviour when it infects people'

I think something similar must have happened here..

 

[CasualBystander]

Ever heard that cats carry a parasitic micro organism that can be transmitted to humans.. making their new hosts do crazy acts ?
Cat parasite 'could affect human behaviour when it infects people'

I think something similar must have happened here..

Actually there is some good scholarship that there are a number of parasitic infections that affect human behavior.

Toxoplasmosis makes women tart themselves up and turns guys into scruffy lazy couch potatoes.

A number of aberrant behavior patterns embraced by the left are best explained as a disease.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Everyone has a bubble. News like this. It's outside of my bubble. I pretend things like this simply don't happen. I know they do, But it's easier for me to wake up and go on with my day, Full of hope that everything is fine. Pretending things like this simply don't happen is what keeps me sane. I recognize that things like this do happen. But I'm happier when I avoid news like this

 

[Dundee]

And Dundee promptly goes off into the weeds again.


Unlike you, I can go down to the local Walmart and check their sales stock. No M4s, M16s, or M14s (or grenades or TOW missiles for that matter) to be seen.

The claim that military grade weapons are commonly available for sale in the US is an absolute and complete lie. Period.

You can buy full auto weapons. There is some licensing involved. The only person proven to have committed homicide with a legal full auto weapon since the 1930s was a police officer who shot an informant with a Mac 11 around 1960.

So the only people who use legally purchased full auto weapons in the US to kill people are the police.

7 craziest gun laws in America
1. Five states allow students to carry concealed guns on college campuses
2. Some states now allow you to bring guns into daycare centers, churches, and even “gun-free zones”
3. You don’t have to be 18-years-old or sober to lawfully use a gun in some states
4. Eight states have (symbolically) asserted their freedom to be exempt from federal gun regulation
5. Some states want to make it a crime for doctors and employers to ask about your gun
6. Nearly half of states have adopted some type of “Stand Your Ground,” or “Shoot First” law
7. A few states make it easy for even violent felons to get their gun rights restored

These 12 Outrageously Deadly Weapons Are Legal In Most States
According to the National Firearms Act, any fully automatic weapon made before 1986 is fair game to civilians.
Flamethrowers are banned California. But, in general, use of the weapon isn't governed by federal law.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-powerful-gun-that-a-person-can-buy-legally-in-the-U-S

Legally a person can own cannon. If it is a black-powder muzzle loading cannon, and you are not shooting explosive shells, you need no license or registration. If money is no object, one might have built a replica of a perhaps 15″ bore Dahlgren rifled cannon.

To just go into a store and buy, without complex 'licensing', one can buy up to a rifle in .50BMG .
A good example is the Barrett M82, a semi-auto version that sells for about $10,000.
The .50 BMG cartridge will deliver nearly 15,000 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle, depending on loading, well beyond the levels of even the much larger "elephant guns", like the .700 Nitro Express.

Now as to the most powerful rifle that can be purchased, there we have a tough decision to make. For one can legally purchase weapons firing up 20MM cannon rounds. But the question is are these really single man weapon systems? I do not think they should be considered single person weapon systems due to their extreme weight.


A custom rifle based around the .50 Browning cartridge necked down to something less than the .50 caliber could theoretically make a rifle capable of firing a projectile to incredible speeds with devastating energy.

Something on the level of a 350 grain projectile traveling in the 3600-4300fps range would have energy of 7500-10000 foot pounds.
the problem is that barrel life of such a gun would be very low.
Maybe as low as 20-30 shots.

So staying with factory loaded and available rounds one would be left with the .50 Browning machine gun round. in either a bolt action or semi-auto configuration. the gun would weigh somewhere between 18-35 pounds and have a capacity of 1-20 rounds.


This rifle will fire a 661 grain projectile to just over 2600 fps at 100 meters and have over 9900 foot pounds of energy at that range. That is devastation on a grand scale to living tissue. That same projectile would still be traveling at 1100 fps at 1500 meters and have over 1700 foot pounds of energy left. That is still more than enough to cause death in most any living being.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to-purchase-an-AK-47-in-the-U-S
It’s legal to purchase a semi-auto copy of an AK-47. There are a limited number of full auto AK-47’s that are available to buy, but they are extremely expensive and require jumping through many hoops.


I have a semi-automatic WASR 10 - WASR-series rifles - that I legally bought from a gun dealer while living in california.

AK pattern rifles are a fairly common item in firearms circles. Full automatic ones are rare.

It took me two hours to get my hands on an AK-47. Welcome to America | Eric Rodriguez
It took me two hours to get my hands on an AK-47. Welcome to America
Eric Rodriguez
It’s not hard to get your hands on illegal guns and rifles in America. It took me about two hours. I called a guy from the old neighborhood in LA, said something about a “piece”, and, hours later, I was staring at an AK-47 and an illegally modified AR-15, which were sitting on a kitchen table. Welcome to America.

Do I really need to go on, seriously, you can own a cannon and a flamethrower as well?
Your argument is laughable

 

[CasualBystander]

7 craziest gun laws in America
1. Five states allow students to carry concealed guns on college campuses
2. Some states now allow you to bring guns into daycare centers, churches, and even “gun-free zones”
3. You don’t have to be 18-years-old or sober to lawfully use a gun in some states
4. Eight states have (symbolically) asserted their freedom to be exempt from federal gun regulation
5. Some states want to make it a crime for doctors and employers to ask about your gun
6. Nearly half of states have adopted some type of “Stand Your Ground,” or “Shoot First” law
7. A few states make it easy for even violent felons to get their gun rights restored

These 12 Outrageously Deadly Weapons Are Legal In Most States
According to the National Firearms Act, any fully automatic weapon made before 1986 is fair game to civilians.
Flamethrowers are banned California. But, in general, use of the weapon isn't governed by federal law.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-powerful-gun-that-a-person-can-buy-legally-in-the-U-S

Legally a person can own cannon. If it is a black-powder muzzle loading cannon, and you are not shooting explosive shells, you need no license or registration. If money is no object, one might have built a replica of a perhaps 15″ bore Dahlgren rifled cannon.

To just go into a store and buy, without complex 'licensing', one can buy up to a rifle in .50BMG .
A good example is the Barrett M82, a semi-auto version that sells for about $10,000.
The .50 BMG cartridge will deliver nearly 15,000 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle, depending on loading, well beyond the levels of even the much larger "elephant guns", like the .700 Nitro Express.

Now as to the most powerful rifle that can be purchased, there we have a tough decision to make. For one can legally purchase weapons firing up 20MM cannon rounds. But the question is are these really single man weapon systems? I do not think they should be considered single person weapon systems due to their extreme weight.
View attachment 780

A custom rifle based around the .50 Browning cartridge necked down to something less than the .50 caliber could theoretically make a rifle capable of firing a projectile to incredible speeds with devastating energy.

Something on the level of a 350 grain projectile traveling in the 3600-4300fps range would have energy of 7500-10000 foot pounds.
the problem is that barrel life of such a gun would be very low.
Maybe as low as 20-30 shots.

So staying with factory loaded and available rounds one would be left with the .50 Browning machine gun round. in either a bolt action or semi-auto configuration. the gun would weigh somewhere between 18-35 pounds and have a capacity of 1-20 rounds.
View attachment 781

This rifle will fire a 661 grain projectile to just over 2600 fps at 100 meters and have over 9900 foot pounds of energy at that range. That is devastation on a grand scale to living tissue. That same projectile would still be traveling at 1100 fps at 1500 meters and have over 1700 foot pounds of energy left. That is still more than enough to cause death in most any living being.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to-purchase-an-AK-47-in-the-U-S
It’s legal to purchase a semi-auto copy of an AK-47. There are a limited number of full auto AK-47’s that are available to buy, but they are extremely expensive and require jumping through many hoops.


I have a semi-automatic WASR 10 - WASR-series rifles - that I legally bought from a gun dealer while living in california.

AK pattern rifles are a fairly common item in firearms circles. Full automatic ones are rare.

It took me two hours to get my hands on an AK-47. Welcome to America | Eric Rodriguez
It took me two hours to get my hands on an AK-47. Welcome to America
Eric Rodriguez
It’s not hard to get your hands on illegal guns and rifles in America. It took me about two hours. I called a guy from the old neighborhood in LA, said something about a “piece”, and, hours later, I was staring at an AK-47 and an illegally modified AR-15, which were sitting on a kitchen table. Welcome to America.

Do I really need to go on, seriously, you can own a cannon and a flamethrower as well?
Your argument is laughable

Ah, I see, we have a viewpoint problem.

You assume everyone are irresponsible criminals who must be prevented by law from having anything dangerous since they might misuse it.

You assume the police who are 15 minutes away can protect you via forcefields from someone with a gun in your face and a bullet milliseconds from your forehead.

In your reality your viewpoint might make sense.

To those of us in the real world it doesn't.

In America we believe gun ownership is a right and expect people to act responsibly. Perhaps Oztralians really are criminals and cannot be expected to act responsibly.

In white areas homicide is no worse than Canada. Which is the best on the two American continents. You keep insisting that the US is in Europe and should be compared to European countries. It isn't, I checked the map.

The US homicide rate has been going down steadily and is at 1950s levels while the number of guns is setting records unprecedented in the history of the planet. There is about 0.0000008 rifle murders annually for each person in the US. More than twice as many people die from autoerotic asphyxiation as die from rifle bullets. About 5 times as many people die from cutting weapons and significantly more people are killed by blunt objects. Twice as many people are killed by fists and other body parts.

The facts don't support your view. But that won't stop you since it hasn't in the past.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Btw, Short intermission, Welcome to the forums CB , You were one of the people I was hoping would find this place
Okay, intermission/

 

[CasualBystander]

Btw, Short intermission, Welcome to the forums CB , You were one of the people I was hoping would find this place
Okay, intermission/

Thanks.

The presence of distinguished individuals such as yourself was a strong incentive to become a member.

Please let me know about any problematic posts, I am still new around here.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Thanks.

The presence of distinguished individuals such as yourself was a strong incentive to become a member.

Please let me know about any problematic posts, I am still new around here.

There is no such thing here. We have many of the Survivors of AH here. But you will find this place is much more relaxed than Ah. It's incredibly hard to mess up here

 

[Dundee]

Btw, Short intermission, Welcome to the forums CB , You were one of the people I was hoping would find this place
Okay, intermission/

Even though I am trying "valiantly" to nail your arse to the wall, I second that. Welcome CB, this place just got better for your presence here Anyway, back to the Fued