Things within Themselves

Discussion in 'Perceptions & Experiences' started by nivek, Aug 4, 2017.

  1. Merle

    Merle Honorable

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    From my way of thinking no, mostly because I don't see the Thing as being me and I see my spirit (or soul as you call it) as something which is me and which hangs around all the time even in those times when I'm not aware of it...
     
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  2. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    This perspective is "something unique yet universal at the same time" but if the personal world, or perhaps called the personal reality, is a manifestation of the I, or a reflection of the I, what is this thing that can become aware or self-aware of this relationship of the I and its personal world?...
     
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  3. iwant2believe2

    iwant2believe2 Honorable

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    This Thing you speak of...unknowable to all other things...how is it you have come to know it exist if it is unknowable to humans? There is only one premise that I am aware of that allows for one to deduce its existence.

    Yet, I believe here is where we come to an end to our wondering and wandering. It seems we have reached an impasse.

    (would still enjoy that cup of coffee though)
     
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  4. Merle

    Merle Honorable

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    Arhhh... I didn't say the Thing itself is unknowable to all other things... rather the World of the Thing is unknowable to all other things. No different than either you or me or anyone else, being within ourselves, each in our own World.

    Unless someone is me (the I within Myself), there is no way my World is knowable to others. I may say I'm happy and you may think you know what happiness is because you may have experienced happiness, but unless you are me, you won't ever have the knowledge or knowing or sensation of my happiness, you only know the sensation of your own happiness and thus my World is unattainable to everyone but me...

    Analogy... Happiness is like wetting your pants - everyone can see it, but only you can feel it.

    (When we have that coffee we need to make sure the Thing isn't hanging around... I'm so Thinged out that if I think about one more Thing then I'll have to neck myself to take myself out of my misery... lol)
     
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  5. Merle

    Merle Honorable

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    You know what nivek, I started to make a reply and after a few goes at it, I managed to get so tangled up by the Thing that I just had to throw it off and run away from it... lol...
     
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  6. Toroid

    Toroid Founding Member

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    In the Law of One series Ra identifies himself by saying I Am Ra. The material claims the first thing that came into existence was the Infinity then it became self-aware. On a side note there are alien races that don't name everything like we do.
    I Am that I Am - Wikipedia
    Exodus 3:14
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  7. iwant2believe2

    iwant2believe2 Honorable

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    How would one draw a distinction between things...between oneself and other things...without naming those other things? There must be a point of reference for a thought to take shape. Even when words are reduced beyond their pictograph to their simplest symbolic representation...that 'other' thing is still be distinguished by the thinking thing as a symbolic representation in the thinking thing's thoughts.
     
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  8. Toroid

    Toroid Founding Member

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    There's a level of understanding where naming things isn't necessary as if there's a greater knowing. If we take the Infinity story as fact there was only the one consciousness. One version (don't ask me to give a source) claims the manifested intelligence divided itself because it was lonely. At that point there would have been two consciousness residing in the Infinity.
     
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  9. Merle

    Merle Honorable

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    Yes, yes and yes again.... You just said in one beautiful concise sentence what I was, in a rather convoluted, torturous around about way, trying to allude to in my earlier replies about giving the Thing a name... I remember my daughter when she was about 10 years old saying to me out of the blue one day:

    "I already know everything and all I'm doing now is re-remembering what I have forgotten"...
     
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  10. Toroid

    Toroid Founding Member

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    We spend a lot of time remembering things in our incarnations. :confused:
     
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  11. Merle

    Merle Honorable

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    Thinking about it more, (the memory fades over time) what she actually said was:

    "I already know everything and all I'm doing now is re-remembering and re-learning what I have forgotten"
     
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  12. Toroid

    Toroid Founding Member

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    I told my 4th grade teacher I didn't need to learn anything or it was something like "I don't need any of this." It turns out I was wrong.
     
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  13. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Indeed many do, an important moment comes towards the end of an incarnation, remembering to remember as one exits...
     
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  14. Toroid

    Toroid Founding Member

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    Would that be the life review?
     
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  15. iwant2believe2

    iwant2believe2 Honorable

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    I think we might be taking a different perspective here. That's not a bad thing just somewhat difficult when we are refraining from naming the Thing. lol I have approached this entire thread from an ontological perspective further refined by an epistemological one. You can blame the Aussie dog here for bringing Kant into play. Stepping back now, I don't feel that's the direction this thread is meant to go. If anyone wants to discuss propositional knowledge and all that, let me know. It can be about as pleasant as a migraine, I suppose, but my mind just operates along those lines. I'm afraid I might just beat the Thing to death if I don't stop now!
     
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  16. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    No, no life review, more of taking with you the essential parts gained from that incarnation by remembering it is all part of you now, going through eyes open instead of eyes shut, there are no longer things within themselves, there is only one I that can cross, remember to remember oneself at that moment and walk through eyes open...
     
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  17. Merle

    Merle Honorable

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    Always a good situation to be in when you can lay the blame elsewhere.. that's what dogs are good for, blame it on the dog they say, the dog ate my homework...

    Though it might be one of the only things I know about him, the reason I bought Kant up is because he is well known for that saying. To be more precise, like you really want to be hearing this:

    The Thing in Itself (das Ding an sich).... see, a Ding is a Thing or is it a Thing is a Ding ?

    I had to look that up... sounds good to me, but not too many long words please, I get sick of having to look up what they mean... lol.... However, chances are it will be me who gives you the migrane, not the Thing, not the Ding nor the Propositional Knowledge.

    (I decided not to drown just so when you come here for that coffee, I can be there and watch you rummage through my Things... lol...)
     
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  18. Merle

    Merle Honorable

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    Propositional Knowledge

    Descriptive knowledge, also declarative knowledge or propositional knowledge, is the type of knowledge that is, by its very nature, expressed in declarative sentences or indicative propositions. ... Most people accept that for a belief to be knowledge it must be, at least, true and justified.
     
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  19. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    There are schools of thought which state it's an absolute impossibility to study the universe without also studying man and that man could only learn limited things about himself through observing and studying the outside world if man disregarded himself...
     
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  20. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    If knowledge is true would it be considered subjective knowledge?...
     
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