Intelligent alien life: astronomy, astrobiology, and the age of inhabitable worlds

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Thomas R. Morrison, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

    Messages:
    471
    I can empathize with that, but it’s the wrong approach to answering a question. One has to be driven to find the truth, no matter what it turns out to be. But if you start out trying to find the answer that you desire, then all of your subsequent analysis will be tainted by that desire.

    I started looking for the answer to this question when I was seven years old, right after my own multiple witness daylight sighting. And I didn’t care what the answer was, I just wanted to understand how what I had seen could be physically possible. Honestly I expected to find an answer in advanced military research projects. But the deeper I dug, the less likely that explanation appeared to be. Eventually I saw that all of the scientific data from multiple disciplines was converging on an extraterrestrial explanation for what I had witnessed. And that trend has continued ever since. So I can now confidently say that the ETH is by far the best solution for the majority of AAV sighting incidents, which tend to be quite similar to my own sighting.

    But I also don’t rule out other possibilities – I think that if we could somehow know the nature of each genuine case, we’d need a pie chart to classify all of the different kinds of things that people are seeing. Aside from the mundane cases (secret military craft, atmospheric anomalies, etc)., the most common type appears to be extraterrestrial technology, but I’d be stunned if that was all there is. There are probably a lot of incidents of an even more exotic nature that we haven’t even figured out how to think about yet, but altogether, they appear to less common, and altogether I would hazard to guess that they account for somewhere between 5% and 30% of all truly anomalous sighting events.

    Holy cow… I’ve read a lot of nutty ideas on the internet, but this one may be the walnut topping the ice cream cone.

    There’s zero logical or empirical justification for that conclusion. I just thought somebody should point that out.

    They’re looking for planets around all types of stars, and they’re finding that most if not all types of stars have earth-like planets – though I’m not sure about white dwarfs; I would imagine that most planets get blown to smithereens during a nova or supernova event in those systems.

    I’m sure that some scientists are considering the prospect of life around other types of stars beside our own. Most people like to focus on Sun-like stars and earth-like planets in the HZ, because life in other scenarios is more speculative. But I’d be shocked if life didn’t arise in a number of different kinds of scenarios as well. Scientists are considering conditions around other types of stars and the likelihood of life around them - according to these papers, our situation might be somewhat of an outlier:

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1710.11134.pdf

    https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1705/1705.07813.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    • Awesome Awesome x 3
  2. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

    Messages:
    1,859
    Umm.

    The problem with red dwarves is their CMEs are about as bad as G-type yellow dwarves. Since the goldilocks zone is almost in the envelope of the star - that is lethal.
     
  3. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

    Messages:
    9,731
    It would be logical and rational to assume different types of stars would have different goldilocks regions surrounding them...A blue giant star's goldilocks zone would be further out from center than our sun's zone simple because of size difference...

    ...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

    Messages:
    471
    And more importantly, the luminosity difference.

    I was just enjoying this Richard Dolan talk about the status of the ETH - perhaps others will enjoy it as well - interesting stuff:

     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    • Awesome Awesome x 1
  5. Kaipo

    Kaipo Adept

    Messages:
    30
    Baloney :laugh8:
     
  6. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

    Messages:
    3,282
    all stuff thats has been reported in UFOs for years, just because it seems to come from outer space doesnt mean thats its real place of origin
    if the number of sightings reported to MUFON and NUFORC is to be believed, the number


    is too big to indicate any sane scientific investigation on earth
    funny you say that....
     
  7. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

    Messages:
    3,282
    im gonna drop a bomb right now....
     
  8. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

    Messages:
    3,282
    heres the "bomb":
    John Keel - Operation Trojan Horse | Unidentified Flying Object | Radar
    255750749-Keel-John-Our-Haunted-Planet.pdf
    John Keel - Disneyland of the Gods | Unidentified Flying Object | Astronomy
    Keel, John - The Cosmic Question [the Eighth Tower] | Osiris | Jesus
    John Keel - The Complete Guide to Mysterious Beings | Werewolves | Vampires
    Mothman Prophecies
    all the writings of interdimensional master john keel avaliable for free!
    i direct @Thomas R. Morrison @nivek , @Gambeir and whoever else doesnt believe in me to the very first book:
    "operation trojan horse "
    in it john keel builds a very compelling and scientific model to explain paranormal happenings
    magic my ass, this is SCIENCE
     
  9. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

    Messages:
    3,282
    ignore him, i have a odd suspicion he is a shill for big oil corporations
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

    Messages:
    3,282
    huh Ricky is playing 4D chess again?
    last time i heard he believed that UFOs are a breakaway human civilization whatever the hell that is
     
  11. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

    Messages:
    3,282
    this theory will only get debunked when we find ET life, otherwise its a pretty valid though disturbing conclusion
     
  12. David Grey

    David Grey Silence Speaks Volumes

    Messages:
    4
    This isn't to say, All life wouldn't have an instinct to kill and dominate. But, If that's not the case and we Humans really are savage. I ask, Why would aliens want to come here? Not that they haven't come here before. I mean, Why would they want to coexist with us?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Toroid

    Toroid Founding Member

    Messages:
    3,719
    Welcome to AE.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. David Grey

    David Grey Silence Speaks Volumes

    Messages:
    4
    Thank you :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

    Messages:
    471
    Welcome aboard David! Those are two good questions, but they're two very different questions.

    First you asked: "Why would aliens want to come here?" And it's really impossible to say, without being able to ask them directly, but there are all kinds of logical answers to this. For starters I'd say that they probably find living planets to be much more interesting than the others, just as we would, in their position (having mastered interstellar spaceflight etc). Every planetary biosphere would evolve different biological mechanisms, for example, so maybe they collect these variants for medical and/or technological applications. Sort of like we do when we go into the rain forest to find potentially useful medicines via plants and such. Life is interesting, and full of surprises, and we've got a lot of that going on around here. And of course, we're a sentient technological species, so we share at least that much common ground with them. If NASA could send a probe to either a dead planet like Venus, or a living planet like Earth that has sentient life forms, the choice is obvious - we'd want to go check out the planet with (more or less) intelligent life. What they might want to do when they get here is a whole other ball of wax. Nevertheless I think it's easy to see why an intelligent alien species would be interested in visiting our planet.

    "Why would they want to coexist with us?" - apparently they don't. So clearly they're quite intelligent. They avoid us like the plague, evidently. They evade our interceptors, and refuse to make radio contact, and have yet to make any significant move to open communication with us (although if some CE3 cases are real, they do sometimes contact individual humans). Maybe they're keeping us at arm's length for the reason Stanton Friedman suggests: we're a dangerous and rapidly advancing species and soon we'll be able to traverse the stars and "show up on their doorstep" so to speak. And given our violent nature, they'd be crazy to not keep a close eye on us, while maintaining radio silence. Or maybe they're just so far ahead of us that we have nothing to offer them, so communication would be pointless from their POV.

    In any case, there are lots of logical explanations for what we're seeing here. And I think the most troubling aspect of it, is their total disinterest in communicating with us as a civilization. Because it's rarely if ever a good sign when all of your neighbors are giving you the cold shoulder, y'know?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    • Awesome Awesome x 2
  16. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

    Messages:
    1,859
    The issue isn't the luminosity but the ratio of IR to visible light.

    A blue giant would produce far more usable light than a yellow star or red dwarf.

    A red dwarf could produce half or less of the light usable for photosynthesis compared to the sun for planets in the goldilocks zone.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

    Messages:
    471
    Actually if you look at this paper from Harvard that I provided a link to previously, you'll find that the required conditions for prebiotic chemistry depend on the UV light irradiance, and K-dwarf (.45-.8 solar mass) and G-dwarf (Sun-like) types of stars appear to be the most suitable for rapid abiogenesis.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  18. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

    Messages:
    1,859
    Well...

    A blue giant is best for UV. That is simple physics. If the Wien-Planck curve peak is shifted to blue you get more UV. Yellow is better than red.

    Your 3000K red dwarf doesn't produce a lot of UV. It does produce a hell of a lot of thermal infrared which is useless for photosynthesis.

    [​IMG]

    But a blue giant (temperature 10,000K) has a lifetime of 320 million years or less, and does a lot of damage when it goes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  19. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

    Messages:
    1,859
    As a side note I like that paper.

    Don't know why they like Orange Stars (3000K to 5000K). The sun (5600K) produces more UV.

    On the other hand the paper could use some proofreading and I am suspicious of any paper that has a graph that shows the sun as the "ideal" mass for maximizing life probabilities (Fig 2).

    If it is so obvious that these red dwarfs are not inhabited - why do the planet finders keep hyping them?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

    Messages:
    471
    You're not reading that graph right - the Sun is on the outer edge of the optimal band; stars with about 2/3 the mass of the Sun were found to be ideal for rapid life formation and widest biodiversity:

    "In fact, their peak species richness is comparable since K-dwarfs are longer
    lived than G-type stars but, on the other hand, the associated timescale for abiogenesis is
    also longer. Based on criteria (iii) and (iv), we found that Earth-analogs around stars with
    M⋆ ≈ 0.67M⊙ may take the least amount of time for complex (eukaryotic-type) life to
    originate."

    And while UV has been found to be important, there are other factors like stability and longevity that are also critical.

    Well I wouldn't say that it's "obvious," this is a rapidly evolving and cutting-edge area of current research - that paper only came out last month. And the press has been focusing on Earth-like planets in the habitable zone (HZ) so the TRAPPIST-1 system seemed exciting, since it has three such planets, and a very long lifespan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page