Roswell, can we finally let it go?

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Wade, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    exactly, it isn't "magic", its just something that is so advanced and strange that humans will take centuries to decipher
    its a incomplete theory! to complete it we need to meet the thing itself
    as for the last question, its clearly not life as we know it, i doubt it would evolve
    yet they somehow radiate heat into nothing-ness, have artificial gravity and a lot of others problems (not going to mention FTL and CE3 problems because you alreday have biased answers to both)
    you are talking about 19nth century science, nowdays academia has only one function: $
     
  2. Zeke

    Zeke Infrequent

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    you mean the most classified and potentially world changing subject to mankind? yeah really saddening he'd research that /s

    already happening dude, it's a very slow process not an "event"
     
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  3. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    not UFOs themselves but all the shit surrounding them
    a process that is taking awfully long
     
  4. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    You seem to have went off the deep end with this silly post...x3

    ...
     
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  5. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    No that’s not right. Military records are preserved for historical and intelligence purposes and an official order is required to destroy them. In this case the records were destroyed from a 3-year period spanning 1946-9, iirc, and no order could be found.

    I think we can assume that either an order was issued to destroy those records and that the order itself was classified (and therefore FOIA exempt), or the records were simply classified at a high level, making them unavailable to the GAO. But that doesn’t answer the question of “why” they were subject to this level of compartmentalization. Perhaps because the Cold War was heating up they felt that Project Mogul was sufficiently sensitive to merit that level of handling, or maybe it was something else. What I find suspicious is that neither the base records were found, nor was the destruction order found…and yet they did release the Mogul documents. Because if Mogul is the reason that those records disappeared, then the order should’ve become available when they declassified Project Mogul for public release. So it looks like two distinct classifications, with Project Mogul being the less sensitive classification, and the other still being classified.

    I don’t have a PhD; I’m an autodidact. In fact I don’t like labels and I prefer to avoid them. I certainly don’t consider myself to be an “authority,” and I think that people should always look at an argument and weigh the facts and the logic behind it, offered by anyone, to draw their own conclusions about any topic under debate. To do otherwise would raise the “appeal to authority” logical fallacy, especially on a topic like this one. As far as I’m concerned, everyone in a debate is on equal footing and it’s only the validity of the facts and reasoning that they offer which matters.

    I think your perspective here is naïve. I have no idea if any of those deaths were covert assassinations – they could have all been natural deaths.

    But maybe not. If you don’t think that the national security apparatus would take lives to protect a highly sensitive secret, then you’re simply naïve – people who work on highly classified projects know better. Or perhaps you think that the national security apparatus doesn’t have covert assassination tools capable of eliminating targets in an untraceable manner – that’s also a naïve assumption; the US has had the most advanced intelligence and defense tools on the planet for many decades, and if they chose to give somebody an aggressive form of cancer or a heart attack, they could absolutely do it – there are a number ways to accomplish either one which would be undetectable in any ordinary kind of autopsy. So when you have the three elements of a crime: means (the technology), motive (a potential threat to national security), and opportunity (access to a public figure like Schiff), then you have cause for suspicion. I’m not saying that they did it. I’m saying that it’s a reasonable possibility. They’ve done worse.


    We’ve learned that the Pentagon had (and apparently still has) an official Pentagon program investigating AAVs, which concluded that these devices are real, and exhibit five signature performance characteristics. The military has declassified three short FLIR videos from jet interceptor missions which purportedly show AAVs operating in terrestrial airspace, two top fighter pilots have come forward with riveting testimony from such an encounter while serving in the Navy, and two of the radar operators have confirmed their testimonies, and we now have some legitimate official documents generated by the AATIP program, and the former Director of the program speaking out publicly.

    All of that is disclosure, by definition. And all of that stuff has happened in the last nine months. It’s not “full disclosure,” but it’s a damn good start. Which is why even the recalcitrant corporate news media is suddenly taking this whole subject seriously for the first time in my life, which frankly I never thought would happen.

    So it boggles my mind when somebody complains that nothing has changed. A lot has changed. If you can’t see that, then there’s something broken with your perceptual capability.

    No, there’s actual evidence in the public sector that crash retrievals have actually happened – Dr. Eric Davis recently talked about it in some detail actually. He must have some specific knowledge about it because professional physicists don’t make claims without having familiarity with compelling empirical evidence. He said that we had a back-engineering program based on several crash retrieval operations, and that this program was shuttered in 1989 because our science and technology needed to evolve before we could make any progress with it. He wouldn’t know the year that program shut down if he hadn’t seen an official document, or heard it from a reliable inside source. That’s my take on it anyway.

    But we have additional evidence of highly anomalous physical trace evidence as well. Jacques Vallée recently described an analysis that he was involved in recently regarding a case in Argentina, where they found an element consisting of a perfectly uniform distribution of three stable isotopes of that element. That doesn’t happen naturally, and it would be extremely difficult and costly to do, because that requires the separation of an element into its individual isotopes, and then recombining them in units of thirds. Human technology doesn’t require that kind of process, because our technology functions at the chemical level. So the sample that his team analyzed represents a nuclear technology. We’ve only made the first primitive steps in that direction with fission and fusion processes. We don’t even know why a perfectly distributed balance of three isotopes of one element would be useful, but you wouldn't go to that kind of trouble if it weren't essential for some purpose. So that’s physical evidence of a science and technology significantly beyond our own – beyond even nanotechnology.

    We’ve also recently heard about a metamaterial with a similar level of sophistication, from Luis Elizondo. His statements confirm some of the claims that Tom DeLonge made about that metamaterial last year.

    And the ADAM Project is analyzing some potentially exotic trace evidence samples recovered from AAV cases right now.

    So it looks to me like we’ll have solid empirical evidence of advanced alien technology soon, probably within the next year or so. And if you believe Jacques Vallée, we already have it.

    So by “advanced,” you must mean technology.

    Given that human technology has advanced from the incandescent light bulb to quantum engineering in just over a century, and that process is accelerating because of the expansive breadth of our technological capabilities, I think it’s premature to make any predictions about the timeline of future advancements. Especially if we begin to study recovered samples of this technology in the public sector, as the ADAM Project is beginning to do right now. That could cut your timeframe down to decades. And we might even make some progress in our understanding of this stuff within a matter of years. If professional scientists in the public sector can get hold of legitimate samples of this kind of technology, there’s no telling how quickly we might progress with it.

    That’s why I’ve always advocated for the scientific study of this phenomenon, and why I defend these kinds of efforts so vigorously. It’s the key to all of this, and I believe, the key to a human future that’s worth fighting for. Because the end game here is manned interstellar travel, and that will change everything.

    There’s a big difference between an “incomplete theory” and an “unintelligible theory.” The ETH is an incomplete theory. The “extradimensional ultraterrestrial hypothesis” is an unintelligible theory. You can’t even tell me if this alleged single entity behind all exotic UFO cases is biological, if it evolves (it would have to evolve btw – it’s inconceivable that any intelligence could have originated from the Big Bang itself or earlier), where it lives, what its physical nature is, how it survives, or why it would masquerade as exotic alien devices evading our top jet interceptors. In short, your hypothesis can’t even approximately explain itself.

    So in terms of explanatory power, which is the gauge of any hypothesis, it’s worse than worthless. It raises a raft of intractable questions, and answers none of the existing questions. It’s garbage thinking – there’s nothing useful, rational, or well-motivated about any of it.

    What does that even mean? The stars radiate heat into nothing all day long, so that’s obviously not a valid criticism.

    You generate “artificial gravity” every time you squeeze a rubber ball; the effect is just too weak to measure. So that’s not a problem; it’s simply a question of magnitude. And science and technology routinely expand the available magnitudes of physical properties, so the advent of a gravitational field technology is absolutely inevitable. In fact an experimental proposal was published a couple of years ago that would produce a detectable "artificial" gravitational field in the laboratory, using a pair of large superconductive magnetic coils and a laser interferometer - it would be costly to perform, but we could do it now.

    Well you just did mention it, and I’ve already provided citations to decades of peer-reviewed academic papers on the first subject, so your bias against FTL is your problem, not mine.

    As for CE3 cases, I think it’s hilarious that you accept every crazy story about people having lunch with aliens as absolute fact – with zero evidence that any of those stories are true…while simultaneously ignoring all of the empirical evidence from trace evidence cases and radar-visual cases as well as the canon of peer-reviewed scientific literature.

    The mental gymnastics that you have to go through to maintain your position on this subject is really bewildering and alarmingly inconsistent. It’s a shame that you can’t see your own thought process objectively; if you could then maybe you could start to straighten it out.

    No. I’ve talked with a lot of academic scientists, and none of them are motivated by money. The scientists who –are- motivated by money, go into defense, because that’s where the money is. Academics are driven by a passionate thirst for deeper understanding, and a desire to contribute to the advancement of that understanding, and to an extent, to be recognized for their contributions to scientific progress.

    That’s my direct personal experience on the subject. What’s your viewpoint based on? I’ll tell you: the same kind of paranoia that you accuse others of exhibiting, and with far less justification.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
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  6. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    i don't see what is bad about it
     
  7. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Not bad, more like wibbly wobbly, timey wimey, like interdimensional...:Whistle:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    the simple answer is: they don't care, its unlikely the military industrial complex cares about the doubts of a ufologist in the internet, so the order papers remain classified because nobody cares
    if you want to see the real susicious deaths i suggest you should read on heart attacks, CIA has confirmed in the past they have a heart attack gun in their possesion and nothing screams suspicious more than a sudden heart attack before a important event
    cancer is harder to do without leaving any evidence
    what about the puerto rico footage from 2015? or the footage taken by a police airplane of a cilinder UFO over florida in the 90's?
    and there are thousands of military accounts older than TTSA
    the year 1989 makes me raise my eye a bit, it just happens to be the year when the ufological dork age reached it's apex thanks to bob lazar, could eric been fed disinformation by richard doty?
    i have no problem with trace cases (if i had, 90% of the cases i think are legit would have been dead), just crashes
    no, they somehow are able to manipulate the laws of nature themselves, otherwise fortean phenomena like strange falls from the sky would be impossible
    but it still explains the anomalies reported by witnesses
    but how UFOs do it? they have no heat radiators
     
  9. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    is it possible to have both artificial gravity and a FTL drive in the same craft?
    not all of them, only the ones that were investigated seriously
     
  10. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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  11. Rick Hunter

    Rick Hunter Noble

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    835
    image.jpg
     
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  12. Standingstones

    Standingstones Celestial

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    Roswell has to be my pet peeve at the top of the UFO cases list. After over seventy plus years what has been resolved? Almost all the various parties are now long dead. The people who keep writing about this subject have some sort of vested money interest to keep the topic alive. It is sad when I hear the topic come up on some UFO/paranormal show. I have to immediately turn the program off.
     
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  13. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    3,984
    I can let it go - and don't let the screen door hit it in the ass on the way out.

    Charles Berlitz and a guy who - if I got my UFO guys right - publicly admitted to shoveling horseshit for AFOSI and somehow a lifetime later we're still going ON about it. This is Tom DeLonge's Sekret - that we'll buy anything and believe part of it no matter what
     
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  14. Rick Hunter

    Rick Hunter Noble

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    835
    I have to admit, I like the Roswell story and I do think that the USAF is witholding something on it. What that is, I have no idea. Given that almost everyone involved is dead, the only thing that could move the case forward would be newly discovered documents.
     
  15. 1963

    1963 Noble

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    637
    No! Roswell is real no matter what BS the official detractors would tell you. The facts are as clear as crystal if you do not let them lead you down the many, many obfuscatory pathways that have been created by the 'secret-keepers' , 'the publicity-seekers' and the idiots over the many decades since Mack Brazel found wreckage of a crashed UFO on the Foster Ranch back in July 1947.
    Weed out the original facts from the later-added-factoids, propaganda, personal beliefs and misdirections and you can only come to one honest conclusion. ... and that is that for whatever reason, a UFO crashed as was first reported by the finder and then the military spokesman 1st Lt. Walter Haut whom was instructed to do so by his superior Col. William "Butch" Blanchard [commander of the only nuclear power AFB in the world] after he had sent his best three qualified men Major Jesse Marcel , Lt Colonel Sheridan Cavitt and Master Sergeant Bill Rickett to see if there was any truth to what Brazel claimed.
    [​IMG]

    and when Blanchard's Washington superiors found out that they had let the cat out of the bag, then they swiftly put the 70-odd-year [and still counting] sucker-punch-stories into motion.


    Cheers.
     
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  16. Rick Hunter

    Rick Hunter Noble

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    I agree completely. Something more than a weather balloon or even a Mogul balloon happened there and the USAF is now on their third explanation for it. I doubt that more work by Ufologists is going to change anything unless new documents come to light.
     
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  17. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    345
    Hi folks,
    I've posted this at FF, but I want to show it to you here, regarding this:
    Truman UFO Promise

    This is from me. my friend said it was okay to post it:

    I met my friend perhaps five years ago now? She is in her 80-90s, and a wonderful person. As has been my habit the last few years, if it comes up, I ask folks old enough to remember, if they recall the UFO wave in Oregon in '47:
    PROJECT 1947 - UFO REPORTS: 1947
    Many people do, and a number saw objects themselves. Back to story.
    I asked my friend, and she said "no" but she lived in LA, CA at the time and in the '50s and later. I asked her if she remembered the "Battle of LA"; she said she did, but didn't see the objects, but some of her friends had. She said she lived next to "this general", and he used to talk about them. She lived close to Craigie's family, nearly next door, and knew them when she was younger. She told me he was an important guy who helped broker the armistice with North Korea. Anyway she said he told her he saw UFOs in North Korea, that they were real, and we should not be afraid of them. He told her he "promised the Air Force he wouldn't talk about it". she said his name was "Craigie"; this is excellent, because she was an uncontaminated witness, as I'll describe later.
    She also told me that he had certain pictures on the walls in his study thsy he would take down if company was coming over in case they might be seen, so they wouldn't upset anyone..She said he always acted terribly distracted, unusually so, and wouldn't talk about his work.
    She had no exposure to anything UFO related since those days, and wss shocked as hell when I showed her the Craigie stuff on the Internet, where Craigie is supposed to have "promised Truman he wouldn't talk about it".. She moved away and lost touch with them and that was all the exposure she had to it. She had no idea about anything Roswell related or any role Craigie might have had. But, she is the missing piece if the puzzle; confirms the statement about the "promise" fits in with Craigie's pilot's story about flying him to Roswell and Truman the next day. Perhaps the pics were ofvthe Roswell crash.. Hard to imagine pics of a few lights in the sky would be that disturbing.

    I also met a person who mentioned seeing the exact same type of UFO mentioned in "nukes" episode of Unidentified,
    while stationed on Catalina Island; he watehed it hover over mainland LA, before shooting directly up out into space.
    Came to me after a presentation and told me about it several years ago.
     
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  18. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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  19. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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  20. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    Interesting old interviews with Roswell witnesses:

     
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