The Bible: True, False, Or Irrelevant?

Discussion in 'Knowledge of the Spirit' started by dr wu, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    All of the western world is based on Biblical influences due to the spread of Christianity over the millennia.
    So how much of the Bible is accurate...any, some ,or very little? Do you even care..?
    Very interesting video that I found on another forum.....a young Biblical scholar who happens to be an atheist but she is really into the Bible....on a de-constructive level. Much of her ideas I have read before since I have followed the interpretations of the Bible over the last 40 years with others like Ehrman, Pagels, Dawkins, Harris etc..
     
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  2. Caeldeth

    Caeldeth Noble

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    I believe some of it is completely false but some is true. I believe many things in the bible were interpreted wrongly from what they were actually witnessing because if they couldn't comprehend something they would just say God did it or it was a holy sign or whatnot. They didnt know science or what we know now so it was easy for them to just say it was a holy sign. Hope I worded that correctly..
     
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  3. Castle-Yankee54

    Castle-Yankee54 Celestial

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    I think most of the bible is in the figurative sense as how the people understood it at that time.....I believe very little of the bible is literal.
     
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  4. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    A video of Bart Ehrman...one of the foremost Biblical scholars from an historical perspective..
     
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  5. August

    August Metanoia

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    The bible was written by men for men. It has little relevance to anyone outside of the Jesus fringe.
     
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  6. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    I've researched this in conjunction with other work in the past, it's rather complex in some ways and interesting in others, how the bible came to be, some parts are fairly true accounts of events and people, other parts taken from many Sanskrit documents and other sources...The bible is basically a conglomeration put together from a wide variety of sources, except god...
     
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  7. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    As August said, it is put together by Men for Men, and I agree, the only thing I would add to that is that it was put together by Men, for Men, by one of the most historically corrupt and evil organizations ever to exist in a format designed to frighten and control the people. I will stand with you and fight for your right to believe in god, and for your individual religious freedoms to believe what you will. But the bible itself, for me. Toilet paper. It is full of contradictions, and stories that open to interpretation as to, is this a rule, or a suggestion, was this event meant to have happened, or is it just an example. If it was a text book for science, it would be thrown out as contradictory rubbish. Yet it is the primary reference for Christianity. Makes no sense to me.
     
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  8. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    Does anyone actually believe any of the religious miracles and supernatural things...or is it all just stories?
    What are your thoughts on the so-called ancient alien connection that some think is represented in Biblical themes?
     
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  9. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    What's you take on the bible?...Genuine article or?...
     
  10. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    That's a long answer. It's genuine in the sense that the various writers who wrote it were believers and were honoring those beliefs about their religious leaders.
    First we must recognize that it's a collection of 'books' written over centuries by multiple authors during their various time eras. As such there are many different points of view covering many different events. It wasn't collected until the Roman Catholic Church decided to create a 'Bible'....so the whole thing about it as one complete work representing Christianity is inaccurate to begin with.
    I don't believe that miracles happened like told in the Bible. IMO they are stories meant to show faith and religious fervor which are meant to illustrate this to the faithful and even recruit others. It's possible some might have been natural events that were taken to be signs from God...I do believe that many of the locales and some events mentioned as in battles ,etc are probably as accurate as people could write about in those days. So I don't think all of it is completely false by any means .
    There are many lessons and parables ,etc...that still are relevant in this day and age. And parts are very well written prose with great tales. It's one of the worlds great pieces of literature and imho that;s how we should look at it....but not as literal truth.
    Regarding the 'alien connection'...it's highly unlikely that that is the source of some of the events. I think that's wishful thinking by the alien crowd. But there are some very unusual tales in the Bible that make one think the original authors had wild imaginations.
     
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  11. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    When I first read this I looked at versions from the different translations of the bible.
    Even when I read the literal translation it was still pretty much the same story.
    Read this and try not to see some sort of flying vehicle. He describes a clear dome, a chair, rotating oand folding wings. Legs like calves feet the color of metal. Wheels...
    Anyway, read it and tell me it doesn't sound like some kind of flying craft.
    There are other places in the bible that talk about stuff like this, this is one of the best.
    Elsewhere Ezekiel talks about being taken up into the sky in the craft.



    Ezekiel 1King James Version (KJV)

    1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.


    2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity,


    3 The word of the Lord came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the Lord was there upon him.


    4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.


    5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.


    6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.


    7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.


    8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.


    9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.


    10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.


    11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.


    12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.


    13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.


    14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.


    15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.


    16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.


    17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.


    18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.


    19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.


    20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.


    21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.


    22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.


    23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.


    24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.


    25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.


    26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.


    27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.


    28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

    King James Version (KJV)
     
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  12. August

    August Metanoia

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    Ezekial's wheel for one , that sound alienish.
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    The problem with the Ezekiel 'vision' is that while a few of the descriptions could be understood in the context of a ufo/craft , many also sound nothing like a craft but much more like a dream or vision. So we are left in the end with nothing concrete to work with...and it remains only interesting speculation.
     
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  14. August

    August Metanoia

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    Sampson is a good one where did he get the strength to topple an entire temple.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    It's a good tale ....who doesn't like a tale of a righteous strong man?

    :)
     
  16. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    I would hardly call that description nothing. Joseph Blumrich was a NASA scientist who in the 70s liked nothing better than to discredit the likes of von Daniken. He started to do the same with Ezekiel and became a complete believer. Ended up writing a book about it. Even when you read the literal translation it gets very specific.
    And I am no expert in history, but I don't think there was anything about back then that could look similar to his description to make him dream something like that. If you read it carefully, every version I have read is pretty specific.

    Here is a literal translation, no embellishments by each individual version of the bible.
    The pics added are what each bring to my mind.
    All I am saying is that his description sounds a hell of a lot more like a flying craft than a vision of the divine.


    Young's Literal Translation
    Psalm 137:1-9)

    1And it cometh to pass, in the thirtieth year, in the fourth [month], in the fifth of the month, and I [am] in the midst of the Removed by the river Chebar, the heavens have been opened, and I see visions of God. 2In the fifth of the month — it is the fifth year of the removal of the king Jehoiachin — 3hath the word of Jehovah certainly been unto Ezekiel son of Buzi the priest, in the land of the Chaldeans, by the river Chebar, and there is on him there a hand of Jehovah.

    Vision of Four Cherubim

    4And I look, and lo, a tempestuous wind is coming from the north, a great cloud, and fire catching itself, and brightness to it round about, and out of its midst as the colour of copper, out of the midst of the fire.
    upload_2017-10-15_12-27-56.png
    5
    And out of its midst [is] a likeness of four living creatures, and this [is] their appearance; a likeness of man [is] to them, 6and four faces [are] to each, and four wings [are] to each of them,
    upload_2017-10-15_12-30-55.png

    7
    and their feet [are] straight feet, and the sole of their feet [is] as a sole of a calf’s foot, and they are sparkling as the colour of bright brass;
    upload_2017-10-15_12-33-0.png

    8
    and hands of man under their wings — on their four sides, and their faces and their wings — [are] to them four; 9joining one unto another [are] their wings, they turn not round in their going, each straight forward they go.
    10
    As to the likeness of their faces, the face of a man, and the face of a lion, toward the right [are] to them four, and the face of an ox on the left [are] to them four, and the face of an eagle [are] to them four. 11And their faces and their wings are separate from above, to each [are] two joining together, and two are covering their bodies. 12And each straight forward they go, whither the spirit is to go, they go, they turn not round in their going.
    upload_2017-10-15_12-35-30.png
    13
    As to the likeness of the living creatures, their appearances [are] as coals of fire — burning as the appearance of lamps; it is going up and down between the living creatures, and brightness [is] to the fire, and out of the fire is going forth lightning. 14And the living creatures are running, and turning back, as the appearance of the flash.

    Vision of the Four Wheels

    15And I see the living creatures, and lo, one wheel [is] in the earth, near the living creatures, at its four faces. 16The appearance of the wheels and their works [is] as the colour of beryl, and one likeness [is] to them four, and their appearances and their works [are] as it were the wheel in the midst of the wheel.
    17On their four sides, in their going they go, they turn not round in their going. 18As to their rings, they are both high and fearful, and their rings [are] full of eyes round about them four.

    Wheels within wheels with eyes???
    upload_2017-10-15_12-38-25.png upload_2017-10-15_12-38-42.png


    19And in the going of the living creatures, the wheels go beside them, and in the living creatures being lifted up from off the earth, lifted up are the wheels. 20Whither the spirit is to go, they go, thither the spirit [is] to go, and the wheels are lifted up over-against them, for a living spirit [is] in the wheels. 21In their going, they go; and in their standing, they stand; and in their being lifted up from off the earth, lifted up are the wheels over-against them; for a living spirit [is] in the wheels.

    Vision of the Divine Glory

    22And a likeness [is] over the heads of the living creatures of an expanse, as the colour of the fearful ice,
    upload_2017-10-15_12-41-4.png
    stretched out over their heads from above. 23And under the expanse their wings [are] straight, one toward the other, to each are two covering on this side, and to each are two covering on that side — their bodies. 24And I hear the noise of their wings, as the noise of many waters, as the noise of the Mighty One, in their going — the noise of tumult, as the noise of a camp, in their standing they let fall their wings. 25And there is a voice from above the expanse, that [is] above their head: in their standing they let fall their wings.

    26And above the expanse that [is] over their head, as an appearance of a sapphire stone, [is] the likeness of a throne, and on the likeness of the throne a likeness, as the appearance of man upon it from above.

    Here is your throne, ice dome, man upon it and apposing wings all in one shot.
    upload_2017-10-15_12-44-51.png 27And I see as the colour of copper, as the appearance of fire within it round about, from the appearance of his loins and upward, and from the appearance of his loins and downward, I have seen as the appearance of fire, and brightness [is] to it round about. 28As the appearance of the bow that is in a cloud in a day of rain, so [is] the appearance of the brightness round about.
     
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  17. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    Well..it depends on how you want to interpret it imo. The big problem for me is that the way he is interpreting it leads to depictions of human craft from the 20th century...really...would advacnced aliens from another world have craft like ours..? Do you see the problem with that?
    I think if one is looking for aliens in the Bible...or anywhere for that matter...then he'll find them because he wants it to fit that paradigm. That's the way it seems to me....but as I said it comes down to how one wants to interpret the situation.
     
  18. August

    August Metanoia

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    I mean really God, The Son and Holy Spook ( The trinity and all the angels and what ever else) are all from 'out there' they are not from 'here' so that makes them all Aliens . Or am I missing something here ?
     
  19. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    I absolutely agree, however he describes what he describes. It is not hard to make the 20th century connection using only his description. I have no idea what an F18 with an afterburner or a modern day SpaceX type rocket wuld be doing there.
    I agree that to some extent you can read Aliens into the bible, but most places it would be pretty darn obscure. His description is more specific in this passage than any others I can remember finding in the bible.
    You cant see any similarities in his description?, even using just the literal translation?
    I mean he describes apposing folding wings, a transparent dome with a chair under it. Wheels within wheels.
    You didn't think this passage stands out a lot more than any other, at least that I have seen.
     
  20. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    Just got back from tea at the pub. Been thinking. Isn't it interesting how people can interpret things so differently. To me, Ezekiel vision is as clear as Wu, ambiguity. And I consider myself a skepti bunker who believes we are being visited :) just maybe 1% not 99% loll. To quote Spock...fascinating :)
     
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