To The Stars Academy: Investigating the Unexplained

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by nivek, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Unapologetic Rationalist & Grand Regent of Taraka

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    They were mailed to Art Bell - that's really all we know about their provenance. Art had a gigantic radio show in the 90's when he got them, and he was well-connected to people like Bigelow and many others at the time. So it's not surprising that he would've received them - he would've been a good choice to send them to in any number of plausible scenarios; someone high-up on the inside who wanted to get them out to the public, or perhaps a soldier on a recovery team who thought that it was wrong to hide them in classified projects, or perhaps somebody who got them from a relative.

    In fact that's what the letters that accompanied the samples had claimed - that the sender's grandfather had been on the recovery team of the Roswell crash. I don't know what to make of these letters, but they're pretty far out there. From my POV they're irrelevant, at least until we know more about the material itself. You can read them here:

    Art Bell - Art's Parts

    Anyway, the fact that Art Bell received them is irrelevant and unsurprising. And LMH only tried to have them analyzed, so that's irrelevant. What's relevant are these questions: "do they exhibit genuinely anomalous microstructure and do they exhibit exotic physical characteristics?"

    That's what we need to know. And that's what we're waiting to find out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  2. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    I know who Art Bell was but never listened to C2C, and still don't. I have heard Greg Bishop mention that he works for the show in some capacity. Hearing that these materials came from that avenue hasn't done anything to dispel my suspicion.

    So we'll see. In the meantime if John Greenewald wants to pound away with FOIA requests I'll be waiting to hear about all that too, but I don't know how much more of his podcast I need right now. In either case I suspect we could fast forward a year and we'll still be saying about the same thing.
     
  3. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Unapologetic Rationalist & Grand Regent of Taraka

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    Art Bell was a brilliant radio show host - I don't think there's ever been anyone who's conducted better interviews. And he interviewed a lot of very serious people, in addition to many of the wilder and zanier ones. Edgar Mitchell, Brian Greene, Gordon Cooper, serious astrophysicists and other scientists...the list goes on and on. I still listen to the hundreds of archived shows that I have of the show when he was hosting it.

    It's complete crap now; total waste of time. George Noory is probably the worst show host and interviewer I've ever heard. George Knapp does a good job when he guests hosts though, so I try to catch those episodes.

    I'm neutral on that point. The fact that they were sent to Art Bell - and I do believe that they were sent, not drummed up by him as some kind of hoax - is neither a point for nor a strike against them.

    I don't think so, but I could be wrong. We'll know in less than eight weeks; that's fine by me.
     
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  4. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    So then the next stage of this subtle butthurt is commenting on things that have absolutely no relevance to ufology, yet it's really a futile effort to make oneself sound important on other subjects to get and spotlight back on oneself...

    Oh don't mind me, this is just some simple and mildly humorous observations, not here but on social media in certain 'ufo circles'...:Whistle:

    ...
     
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  5. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Easily Amused

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    I was surprised to hear Art's Parts were among the things they were looking at. You are right, Thomas, what matters is whether any of the samples they are having tested show signs of being made elsewhere.

    Art was a very talented showman, but I've never really been a fan. He was full of shit sometimes. Some of the things he promoted were obviously bogus, and he treated his fans up in Seattle very badly when they debunked the "alien in the freezer" nonsense. But those bits of metal came from somewhere. I would not have sent something like that to him, but someone did. Or he found them in the middle of a big oil stain in front of AutoZone. Who knows?
     
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  6. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    These guys have lots of enemies aside from the usual debunker crowd.

    There seems to be a group in UFO community who think this whole TTSA/AATIP thing is some CIA disinfo operation in progress.

    Some other people think its a group of nuts from the government, that just believe in this stuff and take it seriously, but they have a lot less to show for it than they want us to think, and since government aint paying anymore they want to get us to pony up.

    Then theres those who think its just some bait and switch money grabbing scam.

    Whos right? I guess well see.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  7. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Unapologetic Rationalist & Grand Regent of Taraka

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    I'm optimistic about it. This situation isn't like anything I've ever seen before; these are serious people, and they seem to be very excited about what they've found. Steve Justice is running the materials analyses and he strikes me as the real deal - clearly a brilliant man and with his Skunk Works experience, I can't fathom a mind like his getting worked up over a nothingburger. And Hal Puthoff and Eric Davis have written some of my favorite academic theoretical physics papers, and they've been doing classified government research for decades. These guys are not the kind of people who would compromise their reputations by trying to pull off some kind of hoax, imo. If they're excited, then they have solid empirical reasons to be excited. I'm dying to see what they have - it's gonna be a long two months...

    That's exactly the right word, "showman." Art Bell could do more with nonverbal cues than most people can do with a full sentence - it's awesome to listen to. But you're right, he went too far with the credulousness on a number of occasions, and that goddamn Jonathan Rutter fiasco with his stupid fake story about an alien body in his refrigerator was one of the worst. Art kept interviewing that MFer long after he'd been exposed (primarily by Royce Myers at UFO Watchdog) as a creepy lying sociopath. Art was also primarily responsible for the rise of Sean David Morton, and several other con artist hacks. But the guy could make an interview with a lackluster or totally gonzo guest, nevertheless an entertaining experience - even when he was clearly convinced that his guest was full of crap, it was fun to hear him ask the right damning questions and subtly express his disdain for the answers, because he was always engaging to listen to. That's a real art form, and Art nailed it.

    I think it's unlikely that Art fabricated the whole thing - he was more into the theatrical aspect of the narrative: he didn't need to make anything up - he saw his job as making the things that came to him, interesting to hear about.

    And he had a huge and devoted listener base - millions of people listened to him every night. And he very obviously loved the subject of UFOs, and wanted to get answers. So it wouldn't surprise me if somebody with real samples of recovered alien tech, figured that he'd be the guy to give it to in order to get the ball rolling. At the time, Art was the epicenter of a huge and prominent network of UFO researchers. And with so many stories going around about samples that "vanished" once they were sent to one academic lab or another, sending something like that to Art really wasn't that bad of an idea. After all these years, none of those samples has been lost. And here we are 23 years later, and they're being studied by PhD-level scientists using independent labs to perform an exhaustive analysis. So regardless of what one may think of Art Bell, the fact is, that strategy worked - and by this time in May, we'll know what they've found. Hot damn.

    Everybody's so cynical and wrapped up in conspiracy theories nowadays. Look at what we just saw with the insane RussiaGate hysteria: for 2 1/2 years the entire corporate news media establishment has been banging that drum like their lives depended on it...and it all amounted to a molehill of dung beetles.

    That's why it's important to offer credible evidence and clear reasoning. The RussiaGaters couldn't do that, and I haven't seen a single TTSA hater come up with a compelling argument either.

    All of the evidence I've seen points to the veracity of the story they've presented: they're insiders working to buck the widespread news blackout imposed on this subject for decades. And they're going about it exactly as I would go about it: through intensive scientific analysis of physical evidence - which is the only way to shed light on anything. For decades all anyone has done is flap their lips about this subject - that's not a path forward...and then they complain that there hasn't been any progress...smh.

    All I know is that this whole story is either going to blow our minds, or implode catastrophically, within the next eight weeks. I'm good with either result, but I'm anticipating the former over the latter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  8. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    If it does implode then its gonna drive away many people from ufology, including most of those folks it lured in, probably permanently. And when the next thing arrives its just gonna be that harder for them to get any acceptance, even should it be the genuine thing. Cause people can always point back into this event and you know debunkers will.

    One of the things people in ufology circles tend to do unfortunately is cry wolf often, and so dont be surprised no one listens to you soon after. So a long chain of nothing happening events, dissapointments and deceit has left a lot of people pretty frustrated and jaded, understandably, like some people mentioned before who now doubt everything that comes forward.

    We need evidence and proof, not reckless speculation, hyping and storytellers. I hope for these guys sakes they have it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  9. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Easily Amused

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    I think a big part of the problem a lot of people are having with this story is its unfortunate similarity to the Bigfoot DNA farce. There were some pretty reasonable people involved in that mess, most of whom managed to disown it when the red flags got too numerous. I don't think it's fair to assume this is the same sort of thing. It does not appear to be, for reasons noted in this thread.

    If the TTSA effort does come up with solid evidence of "nuts and bolts" alien machinery, it will put lots of people's panties in a twist. People from several different ends of the topic who think one another are idiots will have their sleep patterns disrupted. TTSA will then be attacked from several directions at once. Such is the actual regard for real science in our culture, claims and pretenses aside.
     
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  10. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    Well i follow a lot of forums who in turn follow TTSA, and some of these people say if they had that kind of evidence, they would have shown it already.

    Heres a quote from Mirageman of ATS forum, whos been pretty skeptical of the whole thing:

    "And as we know every major scientific leap forward has never been announced as something wrapped up in a multi-part series with TV company that you have to watch to find it all out. If you believe this is being done because people aren't ready for it by traditional means, with a press release of what has been achieved, then you are sadly misguided.

    If TTSA had made a really astounding discovery in anything you would have heard about it on the global news networks. That would actually garner move interest in any TV series .

    The fact that they haven't means that they have nothing. It is just like "Hunting Bigfoot" or "Oak Island". The point is to keep the story rolling and never resolve anything.
    "
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  11. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    I agree that which ever way it goes, people will attack them from both sides of the spectrum. Youre damned if you do and youre damned if you dont.

    In the end im only intrested in the results. If they have the evidence, it should speak for itself and hopefully reach over all the noises and start new conversations. If they dont, it will inevitably at some point catch up to them and deflate their hype balloon and business.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  12. Standingstones

    Standingstones Celestial

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    We’ve just gotten over the fake Roswell alien nonsense. Another UFO scam will really turn people off. I do hope that the TTSA group have some true information to impart to the world. A fast buck scheme will make lots of people lose hope on disclosure altogether.
     
  13. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    I have to be honest, I dont really see how names as big as these would just attach themselves to some money grabbing scheme, as we know theyre found out sooner or later. And there has to be better and more intelligent ways to make money than some UFO scam. TTSA so far hasnt been that lucrative. So if it is a scam, its a pretty poorly tought one.

    Unless *puts on a tinfoil hat* theyre all somekind of CIA martyrs and the whole thing is just designed to take a fall and muddy the waters around UFOs further.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  14. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Easily Amused

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    That's the big difference I see between this effort and things like the BFDNA train wreck. As I recall, there were some very shady characters and some real flakes involved in that, along with some people who, in hindsight, really should have known better. The worst part of that mess (and that's pretty bad!) is they just might have had some interesting samples, but it's all thoroughly discredited now.
     
  15. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    If it is nothing, it advances nothing and creates more jaded people in our community. Some have already crossed the line to the skeptic/debunker side of view.

    One of the old veterans, Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos got pretty tired and pessimistic on Ufology, his blog gives a pretty scathing review of AATIP and other UFO related things. He now seems to think the phenomena is mostly explained by psycho-social hypothesis and that theres ultimately nothing to it at all, except the myth that has born in its wake.

    I wonder...
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  16. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    To me that line of thinking would be hardly different than believing some mischievous god was responsible for ufo activity, both saying they're illusions or misleading and both also counterproductive in finding out the truth...

    ..
     
  17. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    I dont necessarily agree with him totally, tough he makes some good points. Those are his opinions and hes entitled to them. There are other veterans that disagree, for instance Michael Swords thinks the opposite is true, were dealing with ET related phenomena ultimately.

    I can see tough how people get frustrated, 70 years havent produced any smoking gun we could really point to and say "that proves it all". Infact it feels sometimes were no closer to the truth than when we started, its just become more murky with these endless speculations.

    Theres an exchange of dialogue from Roswell movie, with an old UFO researcher called Townsend and Jesse Marcel, which captures the state of Ufology pretty nicely.

    Jesse Marcel : Is this all true?
    Townsend : Well that's a good question. One must proceed cautiously here, on guard to ones desire of wanting it to be true or wanting it not to be true. One must be as much as possible, Neutral.
    Jesse: Well how can you be neutral? That thing is either real or not, theres no middle ground.
    Townsend: All right ... then none of it is true.
    Jesse: None of it?!
    Townsend: Well, maybe some of it...
    Jesse: Now youre playing with me, why are you playing with me?
    Townsend: Because maybe you woudnt know whats true or not even if you had seen it all for yourself. Hows that for an answer?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  18. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    That's true, no matter how silly some may be lol, but seriously, yeah there are a multitude of opines about ufos, we need hard evidence to point us in the right direction so to speak...
    The time passed without that "smoking gun" really tells me that we are indeed dealing with something way out of our league in many ways, technology so advanced it's taking us a long time to sort it out...I also think we are extremely fortunate to have even a small amount of those meta-materials to analyze and could hazard to assume it was perhaps mistakes made by some aliens which made it possible for us to have this material at all...

    ...
     
  19. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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  20. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    There is the appearance of a pattern at work here that can be seen in other arenas. We get lost in details that flatter our preconceptions and fail to see the forest for the trees. I assume that somewhere this 8 week time frame was announced about the materials testing. Well great ! I'll set aside some time in my fantastically busy and interesting lifestyle for that :)

    That could all go poof and TTSA will keep rolling. Agreed it doesn't look like it's so commercially successful that anyone would risk their reputation on it.

    I just can't get past the feeling that there is something more to it than we have been told, and I think that's fair after decades of unrelenting nonsense.
     

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