Are UFOs 'Nuts & Bolts' Or Spiritual?

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Georgek, May 30, 2019.

  1. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    You're dead wrong. You're dismissing a field of physics that you haven't bothered to study. With a spacetime propulsion field a craft can zigzag across the sky at thousands of miles per hour, and an occupant inside the craft would feel nothing because all of the matter within the gradient is accelerated uniformly, unlike all of our primitive propulsion methods such as planes and rockets etc. where the force is transferred mechanically from the thruster through the airframe to the passenger. To a UFO occupant looking out the window while performing rapid zigzag maneuvers, the view out the window would look like a movie projection being swung from side to side. No g-forces, no sense of motion at all - a very comfortable ride indeed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  2. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Celestial

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    When UFOs turn high G maneuvers we don't really know if any occupants are inside. So it could be that these high G UFOs are just drones. It might be that fast, but straight flying UFOs are with crew, and high-G UFOs are just drones. Aliens would need both drones and crewed vehicles for different type of missions. Apparently, electronics that fits inside smart artillery shells need to be designed to stand to acceleration of 32,000g.

    Lets not try to prejudice observations in order to prove theories we are attached to. Here scientific method imposes the obligatory disclaimer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  3. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    Lets take an example.

    You park your car (or spacecraft) above a neutron star and cut the engines.

    You have amazing acceleration and much like the "vomit comet" would pretty much be floating and unaware of the speed of acceleration.

    By tweaking the local space metric (gravity drive or whatever you want to call it) you would have the same effect.

    One of the things that isn't clear - how they maintain a normal gravity reference to one surface of the spacecraft. They might be isolated from gravity by the drive system and have to be strapped down in chairs.
     
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  4. michael59

    michael59 Celestial

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    I know this does not mean anything even close to proof. I have to say it anyway because I have seen it done. I have also done it in a controlled environment. The environment was controlled by ET's so, unless you know there is life out there besides us and that they do come here to earth, then it means nothing. *I was going to type the word, believe instead of, know, but I didn't because there truly is a big difference between them.*

    I have tried to do it on my own because I remember the exact way it felt when they showed me how. I could not do it.

    I would also like to add that the ET's I speak of were very physical beings. Not spiritual entities. They were also really impatient little pricks.
     
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  5. Georgek

    Georgek George

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    Certainly the one that we saw was NOT physical. From my experience I found them earth bound. I can only tell you what I saw. They seemed to be there all the time?
    I know what I had seen and as I find one answer, another ten questions appear.

    Reason for this, was/is the way that they interacted with us. Of course I have no proof but can only tell people what we had seen.

    I do not see them as physical but that does not mean to say that they cannot become physical in our environment. Their universe is not what we perceive the universe. When we look at the physical state of the solar system and all the stars etc, what we are looking at are dead worlds.
    In fact it is my opinion that most of the planets are inhabitable...only in a different 'layer'

    Reason for this, is that we can comb the universe with our SETI and space explorations and find NOTHING. God did not create waste.
    Also if you look at the stars...there are billions. We can communicate with any one of them with our radio telescopes etc and we will hear no reply. Why is that?

    This is because the higher entities keep away from us for good reason as not to influence a lowly evolved planet.

    Other entities who have no vision of us, just cannot pick up our signals using the frequencies that we do on earth.

    It stands the reason or why is the sky dead of inhabitants?

    All except the UFOs who know our existence and 90% are earth bound in a different dimension. The same entities who occupied our earth inj biblical times to the ancient gods.

    If physical UFOs were to travel the way they do in our atmosphere they would break up. My mechanical skills tell me that.

    NOTHING can do these manoeuvres in our atmosphere being of 'nut and bolts'

    Well...I disagree with that. Certainly if you travelled in a straight line at super sonic speed and beyond, that would be the case...but 'G' forces acting on a mass 'M' would tear you apart on acceleration . If that won't do it...certainly the centrifugal force will.

    Beyond me as a mechanical engineer. I am not a physicist There are so many more variables to consider. A curved universe may allow a short cut? What about the speed of thought?

    Supposing these entities are spiritual...then they could transverse space by thought alone? Etheric bodies? More points to consider? In which case your philosophy becomes just a theory as the more theories we have the less credence we can put towards a specific area .

    Just my thoughts.
     
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  6. Georgek

    Georgek George

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    General

    I had in away given up trying to work out UFOs and aliens.

    From my experience, they had always been spiritual. Had no physical interaction what I can recall.

    I must be one of the few people in this world who stood and watched a UFO in flight above our heads for a good length of time.

    I know that they can pass through brick walls and play about with time and hypnosis.

    Okay transmigration may be possible?
    It just does not make sense to me, that entities who are so evolved could just die in a relative short period?

    Don't make sense and increases the so called God factor. Why should God create so advanced an entity only to die?

    We as humans are spiritual but have physical bodies to bring us down to earth like a brick.
    The earth is meant to be a prison where we are encased in a physical body as to learn lessons that our spiritual side cannot do without hardship.

    Surely...a civilisation who are millions of times more advanced than ourselves must have overcome birth and rebirth based on their evolution alone as to learn the god imposed rule that all life is sacred.

    They could have crushed me like a gnat...so why not???

    This to me is a God implemented reasoning and had shown me that not only are they more advanced than ourselves, but also purer.

    If that be the case and I am still alive, it shows to me that they are NOT physical.

    To be physical would make them little difference compared to ourselves.
    They HAVE to be spiritual or where does their morality come in?

    They could destroy this planet if they wanted to..yet they do not.
    What does that tell us?

    Supposing UFOs are real...that must in itself confirm much of what I am writing. They treated me with the greatest of respect and valued my existence. We do not even do that to our own kind.

    It has to be.

    George
     
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  7. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    Nope. If you're in free-fall accelerating toward the Earth, and then suddenly a neutron star materialized behind you and suddenly accelerated you away from the Earth toward the neutron star, you'd feel nothing - no g-forces, because at every instant you're in free fall. If the neutron star appeared and disappeared suddenly behind you over and over again, your trajectory would oscillate violently back-and-forth and yet you'd feel nothing - if you closed your eyes you wouldn't even know you were moving (neglecting air friction and tidal forces).

    There's no means of shielding a gravitational field; it penetrates everything, including other gravitational fields. So near the surface of the Earth they'd feel 1g acceleration inside the craft in the direction of the Earth's center - but the craft would experience no g-forces from its own accelerations, no matter how radical.

    As far as maintaining an acceleration aboard the craft during interstellar flights, I assume that they technologically produce a gravitational gradient within the craft. A similar effect could be produced by spinning the habitation portion of the craft, but that seems like a primitive solution for a civilization that already has the gravitational field propulsion technology required for superluminal interstellar spaceflight.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  8. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    That's interesting. If you're describing a physical in-your-body experience among alien beings, then I would assume that your telekinesis experiment was technologically assisted, since you can't do it now when they're not around.

    I've never had an encounter with beings as you've described, so I'm unsure if these abduction experiences that people report are physical, or something else like a lucid dream. I've often awoken from my flying dreams convinced that I could levitate if I could only remember how I did it in my dreams - but so far, no dice.
     
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  9. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    You need to stop making false declarative statements on this subject until you do some reading up on it, because you're arguing from ignorance and it's wrong to misinform people as you're doing here.

    You're trying to apply primitive Newtonian physics to the physics of general relativity which surpassed it over a century ago, and which has been absolutely shown to be the correct theory of gravitational fields. There are no subjective g-forces with gravitational accelerations, period. That's why it's called "free fall." If you jumped out of a spacecraft above a neutron star with an accelerometer in your hand, it wouldn't register the acceleration at all. G-forces indicate acceleration differentials. There's no differential with gravitational accelerations because gravity acts on the entire body all at once - unlike a rocket which transfers momentum to your seat and then the seat transfers momentum your body via force: the interplay between your inertia and the acceleration force is experienced as the g-force.

    Gravitational field propulsion is fundamentally different than reaction propulsion. Gravitational fields accelerate your entire inertial mass all at once so it's not experienced as a force.
     
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  10. michael59

    michael59 Celestial

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    It was definitely a "physical in-your body experience" because I kept losing my concentration. Given the fact that not only were these beings alien, but also my surroundings were foreign.

    It was morning and I was out walking my little Yorkie dog when they took me so they also brought the dog along. There was a long table that had a bunch of different colored and different sized rocks/crystals. All communication from them was telepathic. One of them made a rock levitate off the table and fly across the room hitting a certain mark. Then I was given the message, "Now you do it. Concentrate. Focus on the red rock and make it hit the mark ." Then I felt this strange feeling in my head as tho they were stimulating a certain area of my brain. It worked, I did it. I was so amazed and I started smiling and I looked directly at one of them and said. "I did it! That was so cool!" Then as soon as I said that, the reality of my situation kicked in. I'm looking straight at an ET!

    After that I tried about 4 or 5 more times but, I could not stay focused. Each time I failed, they became meaner and angrier with me. One of them picked up my dog by the scruff of her neck, held what looked like a big knife to her and threaten to gut her if I didn't obey. At that moment everything I had been feeling, anxiety, fear, shock...all fell away and I became extremely focused. I lowered my head, shut my eyes and sent that creature the mental image of a mother grizzly bear charging with the message, "You're already dead. You just don't know it yet."

    Lesson over. The next thing I knew, I was back on the street walking my dog.
     
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  11. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    maybe the occupants are as liminal as the craft?
     
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  12. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    well. here is why, Inertia is a property of mass, meaning, We as physical matter tend to need propulsion or force, to move around. An energy being or a spirit being wouldn't have that physical matter to push around, No inertia. Which means a spiritual being could simply set itself in motion and move from point a to point b at near unlimited speed using very little or even no power. In short, Spiritual beings wouldn't need a craft to travel any distance, great or otherwise. However, I am open to the idea that they could possess craft "for funsies"

    But, I consider the logic in this, Why would an advanced being, Spend technological resources or even research to develop a completely unnecessary thing that they wouldn't need?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  13. Georgek

    Georgek George

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    I would suggest here that you stop showing how clever you are as we are not all fooled because you lose arguments.
    You do not impress me with 'your know how' talk and big words. A forum is for debate, not to shut up and listen to someone who 'knows all'

    Making a person 'false' does not highlight your points. You make a point and that is opinionated.

    I think members here are intelligent enough as not to be misinformed and are quite capable of thinking for themselves without either your help or my so called misguided information .

    We do not NEED training...thank you ...lol

    I am still unimpressed. Nor does that hold true in anything in our atmosphere. We still have 9.81/m/2 exerting a downward force on body and I fail to understand what the heck 'free fall' has to do with anything in our atmosphere?

    The point that I made earlier was that UFOs are sometimes seen doing right angled turns during observation.
    Gravitation pull is based on the mass of the earth
    The centrifugal effect is caused by inertia and the pull on an object...

    A spacecraft above the earth's pull has NO GRAVITY

    We are not talking about what happens deep in space...we refer to the thousands of UFOs observed in our skies under the same laws of motion as any other craft. The principles are the same and anything with plus mass are still under the same laws of physics.
    A mass denotes physical attributes and can be argued that a UFO containing mass is a 'nuts and bolts' object. It has nothing whatsoever to do with 'free fall'. Even if an artificial atmosphere was created inside the craft, the laws of physics externally would still apply on the physical substance of the body contained in our atmosphere.

    Your point I find ludicrous (my opinion) mainly because our atmosphere contains pressures. It is also an obvious point that anything entering our atmosphere at speed would burn up. Mainly because of FRICTION.
    To stop that happening, mass would have to be reduced or the materials made to withstand these high tolerance of fatigue.
    I fail to see under common sense how your theory works.

    What does that mean in plain maths...lol Of course it is a force

    mass and force affect acceleration. The acceleration of an object increases with increased force, decreases with increased mass, and is in the same direction as the force.

    As you understand this too well...where is your maths???

    Show us your maths to substantiate what you say?




     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  14. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Can I just say something Guys, As a person who has lost a million arguments on forums, People get caught up in the moment, And sometimes egos flare, I'm guilty of this more than most people, But no one will remember any of this in three days, people have short memories when it comes to online things, It's not worth any effort. But, As a third party looking in from the outside. Both of you are Super intelligent, awesome people.

    There is nothing to prove to anyone, Both of you possess outstanding intelligence and are really great respected people.

    I feel hypocritical because I'm almost always arguing with someone, But you guys, you don't have to prove anything to anyone, Everyone here knows both of you are really really smart.
    I don't want to butt in, I respect both of you a lot. I'm only offering that, I feel maybe the two of you got off on the wrong foot because I've spoken with both fo you and you are both great people, So a clash really doesn't make sense unless there is confusion involved.

    I just want you guys to know, Everyone here Respects you both a great deal.
     
  15. Georgek

    Georgek George

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    Acceleration-Rate of Change
    Acceleration is the rate of change and this according to my opinion is why UFOs have a small mass in our atmosphere.

    F=MA meaning that as the mass is reduced, the force decreases as one is inversely proportional to the other.
    Being in a lift does not remove external forces. It merely means that we do not experience them unless our acceleration or velocity alters.
    We become relative to our surroundings, but a real force is acting on our elevator.
    When acceleration becomes constant we do not experience any motion.
    The change in motion will affect the acceleration on a moving object with 'm' mass.

    Energy in an object has to be absorbed and forces will decelerate as the object changes direction .

    Normally that would be under sheer strain and the mass still has momentum in the direction of the force.
    For the force to change direction, there has to be an opposing force allowing either a vector change or a change in propulsion direction.

    This cannot be achieved at right angles or a sudden stop. Energy has to be absorbed in some way and is highly dependent on the mass.
    Internal forces have nothing to do with external forces.
    UFOs are governed by the same laws of physics as normal flying objects.

    The only way in my opinion that free flight can occur is to evade our atmosphere or decrease their mass.

    I believe that UFOs being inter dimensional have their mass reduced by which the amount of force required to manoeuvre the object will also be reduced through a constant acceleration. The factors of F=MA .

    A=F/M It can also be said by transposition that if mass diminished the force would have to increase to maintain a constant rate of acceleration at 'A'

    We can therefore sustain that at a constant force our UFO will gain acceleration as it's mass decreases based on a dimension shift.

    In physics Einstein went on to show that time can be altered by exceeding the speed of light E=MC^2

    We can also gain a similar formula using radians for circular motion.
    The element of 't' time alters from point of relativity and thus becomes exponential and effects distance.

    The biggest problem in our 'nuts and bolts' theory is mass 'm'

    We can ascertain artificial effects within our chamber but the external forces are still real on the outside and are governed by the laws of physics despite the effect inside.

    Our forces act upon the mass as a way of absorbing energy .

    If UFOs can reduce that mass, then they can move about our atmosphere at right angles.

    The only way that I can see that being possible is if they are spiritual or consistent of an atomic structure so variable that they can interact interdenominational.

    If that were possible, then they could leave their trace in this world whilst being in the next.

    In spiritual terms we have the etheric or the astral. There here now astral is similar to our physical earth.

    I do not believe that our dimensions are separate? I see them as gradual.

    The way that I see UFOs travel is that they alter their mass by approaching the speed of light and our environment becomes transparent to them as we do to them. It means that by altering their density which affects mass, they can also pass through solid objects.

    I feel that although they can do that to their craft, they cannot alter their own none physical state and use drones to perform physical tasks.

    I had once experienced something similar with an EVP. Our door opened and slammed shut with the same noise it normally makes. Only this time it never opened. A mirror image of our world must exist.


     
  16. Georgek

    Georgek George

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    I have nothing to prove shadowProphet.

    My ego is not at task. Nor am I super intelligent. It has nothing to do about me other when someone makes it so.
    Saying that someone is arguing from ignorance is an insult to a person's integrity. Being egoistic is a definition of self importance. I make no qualm of promoting any such importance other than defend my points.

    Being personal is perhaps defamatory and I see no need for it. As being the case with the person involved.

    There has to be a level of diplomacy, as for respect it has to be earned from me.

    I never ever need to prove anything other than what others want to believe.

    If you came back to me in 10 years time, I would still think the same...as it has nothing to do with being 'caught up in the moment' I say what I think with all respect

    I remember everything I had ever said on forums and in case I do not remember them, I save them.

    I keep a diary of all my innovations and things I had learnt

    People have a choice with me ShadowProphet. They take what I say or leave it.

    I have over half a century of experience and will share that with those who want to listen.
    They do not have to listen.

    George;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  17. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    Obviously you do, George. I'm not expressing opinions here I'm explaining well-trodden physics that you don't yet understand. I provided a key academic paper, Alcubierre's seminal 1994 paper about gravitational field propulsion, that explains the physics here in detail and with mathematical rigor. The Alcubierre metric within that paper is widely accepted as a theoretically valid mechanism for producing dramatic accelerations without any subjective g-forces for the craft or any occupants within it - if you read it that's what you'll find.

    Gravity isn't a force, it's an acceleration field:
    If gravity isn't a force, how does it accelerate objects? (Advanced) - Curious About Astronomy? Ask an Astronomer

    It's useful to neglect considerations of atmospheric friction when discussing gravitation because it's totally unrelated, and it's pointless to get distracted with irrelevant details that only obscure the fundamental physics involved.

    That's perfectly understandable flight behavior in the context of a gravitational field propulsion system. Maneuvers that would destroy any ordinary craft involving reaction propulsion, like rapid acute-angle maneuvers, would exert zero strain on a craft that's employing a spacetime propulsion system.

    Okay apparently you know absolutely nothing about gravity. The range of gravitational fields is infinite, so there is no "above the Earth's pull." Spacecraft orbiting the planet are simply following the curved goedesic around the Earth - they're in free fall. Gravity provides the curvature in a satellite's trajectory. If they didn't keep falling around the planet - if they stopped relative to the Earth at any height - they would fall toward the Earth because the range of gravity is infinite.

    No they're not. That's what I'm trying to explain to you, and it's clearly evident from the observations: UFOs/AAVs aren't using any form of reaction propulsion like a rocket or a missile or an airplane or a helicopter because there are no emissions or winds associated with their lift or their accelerations. The only method of reactionless propulsion - the kind of propulsion that we observe - is gravitational field propulsion. And none of the considerations of Newtonian physics apply to that form of propulsion, which is why it looks like "magic" to us.

    It's not my opinion; it's a common feature in the literature, such as Paul Hill's brilliant 1995 book Unconventional Flying Objects: A Scientific Analysis. The most likely explanation for the absence of superheated air or sonic booms in UFO incidents is that the artificially generated gravitational field surrounding the craft and propelling it, also accelerates the air immediately surrounding the craft, producing a kind of atmospheric cushion that diffuses heat and prevents the formation of a shockwave.

    No, it's an acceleration - see the Cornell University link above. Most first-year physics students understand this.

    You're speaking in terms of Newtonian mechanics, which is obsolete in regard to gravitational fields. This is Einstein's geodesic equation which replaced our incorrect Newtonian equation of gravitation that was based on false assumptions such as "gravity is a force." General relativity showed us that gravity is actually an acceleration field generated by the metric curvature of spacetime, described by this equation:

    ScreenHunter_1231 Jun. 22 01.44.jpg
    Geodesic - Wikipedia

    I think the leading reason why so many people mistakenly resort to superstitious/spiritual explanations of the UFO/AAV phenomenon is because most people (understandably) don't comprehend the advanced theoretical physics of gravitational field propulsion. So the behavior of UFOs/AAVs seems to defy "the laws of physics." But in reality, this is untrue: the performance characteristics of AAVs are a perfect one-to-one match for the theoretical predictions of a gravitational field propulsion system. It only seems exotic to us because we haven't yet learned to technologically engineer gravitational fields - so just as quantum teleportation would seem like magic to a 19th-century engineer, gravitational field propulsion seems like magic to a 20th-century engineer. But once you become familiar with the physics of gravitational fields and their propulsion applications, it's very sensible and well-modeled mathematically. And one day we too will learn how to build gravitational field propulsion devices that exhibit the exact same performance characteristics that we're seeing in our skies, and that technology will throw open the door to the stars and spawn the age of superluminal manned interstellar exploration.
     
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  18. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    Sounds like you have experienced this yourself. Wild ride, eh? :Thumbsup:
     
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  19. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Hearing a door close is hardly evidence of a world existing exactly as ours, which I assume you're implying is overlapping ours...

    ...
     
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  20. Georgek

    Georgek George

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    I am not implying that this is evidence 'nivek'
    Only that to me....it is an inclination towards trying to understand the phenomenon better.

    On a realistic scale, this subject cannot be proven in the sense that it is presented.
    We can only try and understand the phenomena better by study and debate.

    I cannot substantiate in terms of what I had discovered.

    The incident happened a few years back when I did an EVP on a Friday before a Ghost Hunt at the Galleries of Justices in Nottingham.

    I set my camcorder at my Wollaton Address and jokingly I said:- "I am off to see your mates tomorrow"

    That was something that I should not have said as it was insulting to my guides.

    The Galleries of Justices is a bad place for mischievous entries as most of the spirits were criminals.
    In a way I was comparing them with my guides, but I did not mean to. I wass really referring to them all as spirits.

    Well...when I played back the recording, I could hear myself repeat that remark but then there was a creaking of a door and a slam. It was really loud as if someone physically had opened and banged the door shut.

    This was followed by silence throughout the entire recording.

    The living room door does in fact open and close in a similar way and definitely creaks on the brass hinges .

    Only difference was that the door was shut throughout the recording.

    It lead me to believe taht there is a mirror image of our world in the astral world.

    That everything we do in our physical has it's counter part in the astral world.

    To me....that implicated a parallel world.
     

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