Latest on the Pentagons UAP revelations.

[J Randall Murphy]

I think that initially there was fear that the UFO phenomenon would cause some sort of panic, or be used by adversaries to flood our missile detection systems; folks were threatened, sometimes by MIBS (CIA folks). Then it was realized that sheeple just don't care about the phenomenon like they used to; they have become desensitized by all of the BS and smokescreens from the government and others over the years. Today, unless UFOs interfere with your Amazon Prime delivery, or interrupt your game of Halo, you probably don't care, so no need to threaten folks etc. Just spoon feed more blurry footage of drones to hardcore skeptics, until folks fall into a stupor and throw their hands up in the air.

That pretty much sums up the situation today. Unless the aliens themselves come down and start offering public mothership tours — fewer and fewer people are going to care much one way or the other. It's gone back to being niche topic for space nerds.

 

[Todd Feinman]

That pretty much sums up the situation today. Unless the aliens themselves come down and start offering public mothership tours — fewer and fewer people are going to care much one way or the other. It's gone back to being niche topic for space nerds.

Yeah... You tell people you have seen a UFO, and they say "Wow!" and then back to Facebook. Not even interested in asking follow-up questions. I hope the aliens make street tacos out of them.

 

[J Randall Murphy]

Yeah... You tell people you have seen a UFO, and they say "Wow!" and then back to Facebook. Not even interested in asking follow-up questions. I hope the aliens make street tacos out of them.

Just for kicks I Googled "Alien Tacos" and Coming to Jax - July 2024
: Alien Taco & Tequila Bar

 

[pigfarmer]

Been reading various news stories about Operation Prosperity Guardian. Apart from the US a number of other powers have engaged drones, missiles and speedboats. The UK, France, Germany and (I think) Italy among them. Obviously these are first rate, sophisticated vessels that have been using their various 'sensors' extensively to look for small evasive targets.

I haven't heard but would really, really like to know if there have been any anomalous sightings, any UAP activity in connection with any of those warships or their auxiliaries. You'd think that with that sort of activity going on to such a degree someone, somewhere may have seen something strange. With multiple counties involved and social media access you'd think we would have heard something. I sure haven't. No, the Germans don't seem to have a tic tac problem, or glowing orbs or mysterious catamarans or any of that.

Could it mean that some of the UAPs we've been arguing about prefer to operate in training areas, close to US vessels and bases where its safe? As if they were US made and we didn't want them to fall into anyone else's hands? I think a lot of what we've heard about are tests, although they say they don't do that. Maybe they do. The Gulf of Mexico sighting last year certainly sounded like (another) one. What, we only believe them when they say something we want to hear ?

 

[J Randall Murphy]

Been reading various news stories about Operation Prosperity Guardian. Apart from the US a number of other powers have engaged drones, missiles and speedboats. The UK, France, Germany and (I think) Italy among them. Obviously these are first rate, sophisticated vessels that have been using their various 'sensors' extensively to look for small evasive targets.

I haven't heard but would really, really like to know if there have been any anomalous sightings, any UAP activity in connection with any of those warships or their auxiliaries. You'd think that with that sort of activity going on to such a degree someone, somewhere may have seen something strange. With multiple counties involved and social media access you'd think we would have heard something. I sure haven't. No, the Germans don't seem to have a tic tac problem, or glowing orbs or mysterious catamarans or any of that.

Could it mean that some of the UAPs we've been arguing about prefer to operate in training areas, close to US vessels and bases where its safe? As if they were US made and we didn't want them to fall into anyone else's hands? I think a lot of what we've heard about are tests, although they say they don't do that. Maybe they do. The Gulf of Mexico sighting last year certainly sounded like (another) one. What, we only believe them when they say something we want to hear ?

Without having to dig-up every reference I've encountered over the years, the scuttlebutt as reported by seemingly credible sources, has been that lots of people in the forces around the world are in-the-know and/or have had first person experiences.

Basically we ( serious ufologists ) know that they ( the PTB with access ) know, and once that's accepted, then the logical consequence is that they also know way more than we do. I would contend that taken together, they know so much more that if it were all revealed, any skeptic who denies it would be on par with the Flat Earthers.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Been reading various news stories about Operation Prosperity Guardian. Apart from the US a number of other powers have engaged drones, missiles and speedboats. The UK, France, Germany and (I think) Italy among them. Obviously these are first rate, sophisticated vessels that have been using their various 'sensors' extensively to look for small evasive targets.

I haven't heard but would really, really like to know if there have been any anomalous sightings, any UAP activity in connection with any of those warships or their auxiliaries. You'd think that with that sort of activity going on to such a degree someone, somewhere may have seen something strange. With multiple counties involved and social media access you'd think we would have heard something. I sure haven't. No, the Germans don't seem to have a tic tac problem, or glowing orbs or mysterious catamarans or any of that.

Could it mean that some of the UAPs we've been arguing about prefer to operate in training areas, close to US vessels and bases where its safe? As if they were US made and we didn't want them to fall into anyone else's hands? I think a lot of what we've heard about are tests, although they say they don't do that. Maybe they do. The Gulf of Mexico sighting last year certainly sounded like (another) one. What, we only believe them when they say something we want to hear ?

No doubt many reported objects are indeed secret military technology; that's always generated UFO reports. But given the historicity and behavior of the objects in the past (hassling civilians, buzzing bases and causing radar detection problems to the point the CIA was worried the reports would jam our lines of communication during the Cold War), make me think that "they" are not ours. To me their technology seems completely different from anything people have made (from my own experiences). The objects also seem to appear as fully realized devices based on this different propulsive technology. And they have been seen everywhere in the past; even emerging from the ocean in formation in 1947 in Australia.

 

[pigfarmer]

I am very familiar with the history of all this and that’s not what I am talking about. What I am saying is that many recent UAPs have a definite predilection for US tech in training areas, and little outside those I am aware of. Absolutely there is secret military tech involved. Makes me wonder what information Grusch was given. Are UAPs appearing in war zones or foreign military training areas?

Not interested in scuttlebutt or making statements that can’t be substantiated. I am asking serious ufo researchers why not ? Any cases of that sort of thing in the last 20 years?

 

[Todd Feinman]

I am very familiar with the history of all this and that’s not what I am talking about. What I am saying is that many recent UAPs have a definite predilection for US tech in training areas, and little outside those I am aware of. Absolutely there is secret military tech involved. Makes me wonder what information Grusch was given. Are UAPs appearing in war zones or foreign military training areas?

Not interested in scuttlebutt or making statements that can’t be substantiated. I am asking serious ufo researchers why not ? Any cases of that sort of thing in the last 20 years?

I think they are being seen by US military personnel abroad in war zones. The Chinese seem to be dealing with them too --I think they call them "weather conditions", but I don't know exactly where they are appearing over there. There was the "Mosul Sphere" filmed during the Battle of Mosul. I don't know if they show up in Russian training areas. And there is this:

Global Allies Turn a Blind Eye to Adversarial Airborne Surveillance and UAP Despite U.S. Warnings - The Debrief

Despite U.S. warnings, global allies appear unconcerned by the implications of adversarial airborne surveillance and UAP.

thedebrief.org

At Metabunk these things are thought of and often proven to be balloons.
There might be a good reason for UFOs to hang out in military training areas; the devices could thus show that they are not Chinese or Russian devices (that would be an intolerable situation). The devices can show themselves to the military and can't be removed, apparently. This kind of a tactic would be a good way to make modern militaries aware of your presence. In a more far-out vein, perhaps the AI or intelligence behind the devices is stalking our military assets because there is a very high probability of something bad happening involving US military forces. Dunno! Many do seem to be just balloons.
As regards Grusch's statements, I have been optimistic but cautious. I don't know of the programs / intact vehicles he describes are real or not.

 

[Todd Feinman]

These books might have some pertinent info in them:

Amazon.com : UFOs in European Airspace

 

[J Randall Murphy]

I am very familiar with the history of all this and that’s not what I am talking about.

Okay

What I am saying is that many recent UAPs have a definite predilection for US tech in training areas, and little outside those I am aware of.

Lots of cases by the general public e.g. NUFORC Reports for Date Posted 240215

Absolutely there is secret military tech involved. Makes me wonder what information Grusch was given.

According to Wikipedia — nothing that we can verify: David Grusch UFO whistleblower claims - Wikipedia

Are UAPs appearing in war zones or foreign military training areas?

Sure — because unlike UFOs, which are a designation that excludes known natural and manmade objects or phenomena, a "UAP" is just a "phenomenon". So it could be almost anything that is simply experienced or detected by some means or another.

Not interested in scuttlebutt

News flash — it's all just scuttlebutt

or making statements that can’t be substantiated.

News flash — The public does not have access to any scientifically valid, verifiable, material evidence, that sufficiently substantiates the claim that alien visitation, either technological or biological, has occurred here on Earth.

I am asking serious ufo researchers why not ?

The key word above IMO is "access". The PTB have it, and they ain't sharin' it.

Any cases of that sort of thing in the last 20 years?

Lots of "cases" — all based on scuttlebutt. For a more broad historical look at the issue, I'd recommend Tim Good's Beyond Top Secret. - The Worldwide UFO security Threat

 

[pigfarmer]

Probably best for me to stay out of this thread. Any skepticism is unwelcome

 

[J Randall Murphy]

Probably best for me to stay out of this thread.

No need for that.

Any skepticism is unwelcome

That's an odd thing to say. Why is that?

 

[Todd Feinman]

Looking at the history of sightings, they have been clustered around military sites from the beginning of the modern era. I think they've been reported over every base, and at missile ranges like White Sands (folks saw a ton of them). I don't know if some of the sightings were in training areas, but all the aforementioned would be in restricted or forbidden airspace, I'd think. Cat and mouse games with them in restricted airspace are nothing new, too.
If the objects were some kind of testing for some kind of secret technology or weapons platform, it would make much more sense to inform the pilots and personnel about the test or potential for one. Sure as hell wouldnt want to risk some sort of incident or accident with what is the most secret thing you are working on. Advertises it to adversaries, too. And what if you would like to put the fear into our adversaries? Seems like making a formal statement about "UFOs" implying that it's something very secret we are working on would be a master stroke (even if it wasn't ours), and give us a tremendous advantage, but.... That was never done. Even now when Russia and everyone is trying to outdo each othe r with hypersonic weapons... Nothing. Just "can't release it for national security reasons". It doesn't add up in my mind to be our technology or an adversaries' tech. Why aren't we building these Tic Tacs? We could certainly use them. Why waste money on jets and tanks?
Where are the prototypes for these things? If the UFOs of the past were military prototypes, why don't we have the ability to manufacture many of them today? And why would you fly the freaking things all over the world, risking World War III? Or harass civilians with them, or risk incidents or crashes at nuclear facilities? Not to mention USOs --same things apply.
The stuff I saw was radically different from anything I've ever seen. I can't imagine we have something like that. Having seen a Tic Tac fly off into space, I don't know why we would waste our time building Rockets and missiles or SpaceX Starships.

 

[J Randall Murphy]

Looking at the history of sightings, they have been clustered around military sites from the beginning of the modern era. I think they've been reported over every base, and at missile ranges like White Sands (folks saw a ton of them). I don't know if some of the sightings were in training areas, but all the aforementioned would be in restricted or forbidden airspace, I'd think. Cat and mouse games with them in restricted airspace are nothing new, too.

Yup

If the objects were some kind of testing for some kind of secret technology or weapons platform, it would make much more sense to inform the pilots and personnel about the test or potential for one.

Maybe sometimes what makes sense to us doesn't make as much sense to them.

Sure as hell wouldnt want to risk some sort of incident or accident with what is the most secret thing you are working on.

Maybe sometimes they think the risk involved is within acceptable limits.

Advertises it to adversaries, too.

Maybe that's partly the point.

And what if you would like to put the fear into our adversaries? Seems like making a formal statement about "UFOs" implying that it's something very secret we are working on would be a master stroke (even if it wasn't ours), and give us a tremendous advantage, but.... That was never done.

Maybe keeping adversaries guessing is the preferred strategy.

Even now when Russia and everyone is trying to outdo each othe r with hypersonic weapons... Nothing. Just "can't release it for national security reasons". It doesn't add up in my mind to be our technology or an adversaries' tech.

Except we know now that in the past, a goodly portion has been exactly that. So why not now?

Why aren't we building these Tic Tacs?

Maybe the ones that are "ours" aren't "built" — but are some sort of advanced countermeasure that employs a combination of optical and RADAR spoofing.

We could certainly use them. Why waste money on jets and tanks?

That's literally the 64 trillion dollar question ( for the arms manufacturers ). Ask them if it's waste of money.

All that said, your fundamental point is certainly valid. If humans had the ability to construct craft with the performance capabilities that UFOs have demonstrated over the years — starting from the Modern Era in the late 1940s, by now military jets would certainly be obsolete, and we'd be taking that type of tech for granted. So my conclusion is that while much of it can be mimicked by us — building the "real thing" is still beyond our capability.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Ha! you beat me to the skeptical take on my last post I was just going to write for Pigfarmer and you nailed it! Nice job. I guess I'd add that skeptics would argue that the same misidentifications, balloons, military tests and faulty data have always been causing the same problems they are now. And they are clustered around military areas because that's where those kinds of things are likely to be seen. I, and probably you too, J. Randall, would be where Pigfarmer is if we had not had experiences with these things.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Yup

Maybe sometimes what makes sense to us doesn't make as much sense to them.

Maybe sometimes they think the risk involved is within acceptable limits.

Maybe that's partly the point.

Maybe keeping adversaries guessing is the preferred strategy.

Except we know now that in the past, a goodly portion has been exactly that. So why not now?

Maybe the ones that are "ours" aren't "built" — but are some sort of advanced countermeasure that employs a combination of optical and RADAR spoofing.

That's literally the 64 trillion dollar question ( for the arms manufacturers ). Ask them if it's waste of money.

All that said, your fundamental point is certainly valid. If humans had the ability to construct craft with the performance capabilities that UFOs have demonstrated over the years — starting from the Modern Era in the late 1940s, by now military jets would certainly be obsolete, and we'd be taking that type of tech for granted. So my conclusion is that while much of it can be mimicked by us — building the "real thing" is still beyond our capability.

And there is evidence that people who should have known about these technologies when they were perhaps being developed, were also worried and didn't know what UFOs were. Seems to still be the case today.

 

[pigfarmer]

I think they are being seen by US military personnel abroad in war zones. The Chinese seem to be dealing with them too --I think they call them "weather conditions", but I don't know exactly where they are appearing over there. There was the "Mosul Sphere" filmed during the Battle of Mosul. I don't know if they show up in Russian training areas. And there is this:

Global Allies Turn a Blind Eye to Adversarial Airborne Surveillance and UAP Despite U.S. Warnings - The Debrief

Despite U.S. warnings, global allies appear unconcerned by the implications of adversarial airborne surveillance and UAP.

thedebrief.org

At Metabunk these things are thought of and often proven to be balloons.
There might be a good reason for UFOs to hang out in military training areas; the devices could thus show that they are not Chinese or Russian devices (that would be an intolerable situation). The devices can show themselves to the military and can't be removed, apparently. This kind of a tactic would be a good way to make modern militaries aware of your presence. In a more far-out vein, perhaps the AI or intelligence behind the devices is stalking our military assets because there is a very high probability of something bad happening involving US military forces. Dunno! Many do seem to be just balloons.
As regards Grusch's statements, I have been optimistic but cautious. I don't know of the programs / intact vehicles he describes are real or not.

Limited bandwidth and keyboard today and I didn't make myself clear enough.

AI is good at seeing things we don't, like patterns. Ray Stanford is too but that's another matter. What I am saying is that there is a definite pattern at work, a mode of behavior to many of the post-2000 military incidents we know about that suggests that US military training areas and equipment are being either tested or spied on. What I'd like to know is:

- Are any foreign military reporting similar behavior in their training areas ? Anecdotally I think in the UK but I have no specific cases.

- Are these behaviors being exhibited in active war zones, reported by the US or anyone else ? There is quite a lot of multinational activity. Yes, I am aware of that Mosul sphere but typically that's not quite a 'case closed' report.

What I got from that Debrief article is that in 2024 there are any number of things classified as UAP that are likely to be terrestrial than there were in say, 1955. That Chinese weather balloon explains the increased interest not ET.

IMO many - not all - are classified military tech. Wasn't there a story about a mocked up flying saucer they kept somewhere at Wright-Patterson that had some other purpose but what used to startle newcomers? No idea if its apocryphal or not but I thought it must've generated some fuss if true and I wonder how that story sounded after a very long 'telephone game'. Grusch didn't see anything himself it was only relayed to him. Could be GIGO.

I'm just asking about what is going on now, not years past.

 

[pigfarmer]

BTW, I feel that the use of more than say, three or four 'insert quotes' to be similar to TYPING IN ALL CAPS. TRM used to do that and make pedantic points while doing so and it was damned irritating.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Limited bandwidth and keyboard today and I didn't make myself clear enough.

AI is good at seeing things we don't, like patterns. Ray Stanford is too but that's another matter. What I am saying is that there is a definite pattern at work, a mode of behavior to many of the post-2000 military incidents we know about that suggests that US military training areas and equipment are being either tested or spied on. What I'd like to know is:

- Are any foreign military reporting similar behavior in their training areas ? Anecdotally I think in the UK but I have no specific cases.

- Are these behaviors being exhibited in active war zones, reported by the US or anyone else ? There is quite a lot of multinational activity. Yes, I am aware of that Mosul sphere but typically that's not quite a 'case closed' report.

What I got from that Debrief article is that in 2024 there are any number of things classified as UAP that are likely to be terrestrial than there were in say, 1955. That Chinese weather balloon explains the increased interest not ET.

IMO many - not all - are classified military tech. Wasn't there a story about a mocked up flying saucer they kept somewhere at Wright-Patterson that had some other purpose but what used to startle newcomers? No idea if its apocryphal or not but I thought it must've generated some fuss if true and I wonder how that story sounded after a very long 'telephone game'. Grusch didn't see anything himself it was only relayed to him. Could be GIGO.

I'm just asking about what is going on now, not years past.

That's pretty much all I know about what is going on today, too. And totally agree about more stuff in the air these days; that's one of the reasons I like to look at the old cases.

 

[nivek]

BTW, I feel that the use of more than say, three or four 'insert quotes' to be similar to TYPING IN ALL CAPS. TRM used to do that and make pedantic points while doing so and it was damned irritating.

Yeah also the dissecting of posts and unwittingly making remarks on the fragments containing empty context is also irritating...

...