Arguments Against ETH
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Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
100%, vacuum tubes love heat, semiconductors hate it. It is easier to make powerful radar with vacuum tubes.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Stevie Ray Vaughn among others, felt vacuum tube amps made for a superior sound.
I wasn't really talking about radar specifically. I was referring to those who have theorized that the powerful radars in use in the US Southwest after WW2 might be responsible for making a few alien craft crash.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Here's my geekery showing again. That Rheinmetall Rh-120 on the Abrams tanks isn't designed for air defense. At one time Rheinmetall produced another famous Krupp design the 8.8cm anti-aircraft gun. They sit on a very high mount as compared to a standard artillery piece so they can elevate to nearly 90 degrees and throw a respectable anti-aircraft bursting charge - flak. It served beautifully in an anti-aircraft role and as an anti-tank weapon in North Africa out of necessity, but the high profile could be a disadvantage at times. Things like that are called dual purpose guns.
A derivation of it is the famed German 88mm they stuffed into Tiger tanks, but like the Abrams isn't meant for anything other than surface targets. If Lonnie Zamora had been towing one or if ET decided to go poking around Tobruk in 1941 maybe things would have turned out differently.
Leslie Kean's UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record mentions two older cases. One in which a Brazilian fighter pilot using Soviet equipment claims to have unloaded his 30mm cannon into a UFO to no effect, and then there was the Iranian case where any time the jet - US version can't remember which one - tried to engage a brilliant UFO his systems failed.
I don't know how serious @CasualBystander really was about 'getting a bigger gun' and hell, I'm all for it in general but from the one or two cases we are aware of that doesn't sound like an effective approach. Ask Gort. But I agree in general and that's why I suggested bringing in a Sasquatch carcass, albeit via a different method. A dead body and pile of smoking wreckage would certainly be hard to debate.
While I was typing this post I found this link: Iran UFO reports revealed | Air Forces Monthly
No idea what to make of that but it concluded:
In 2009 the Iranian Air Force Strategic Research and Studies launched a research project to study the nature of the UFOs spotted over Iran in the past five decades. The IRIAF researchers working on the project included F-4E instructor pilots and aerospace engineers assisted by scientists.
The study concludes that the UFOs in question were manmade and that, in the past two decades, the objects primarily appeared in proximity to sites related to Iran’s ballistic missile and nuclear programmes.
As I've said in other threads this why I give TTSA a fishy eye.
Kchoo
At Peace.
If it was, I am sure they adapted their systems since then.
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
95%
when one takes into account empirical evidence about UFO electrodynamics shooting down UFOs with tracking radars makes perfect sense. Hundreds of whitness testimonials strongly indicate that these vehicles run on electricity.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Hundreds of eyewitness testimonies just mean that we have hundreds of eyewitness testimonies.
Pile them in one hand and s**t in the other and see which one fills up first. In order for us to make any useful speculation about how alien craft might actually work you'd first have to make the assumption that it's something that we actually can wrap our heads around right now. Maybe. Certainly not impossible, but the galaxy - never mind the Rest of It (as seen through the Total Perspective Vortex) - is an old and big place. Maybe it contains civilizations we could comprehend .... and maybe it doesn't. I doubt that Life is all that rare. How much of it is coming here is another matter.
What do you suppose the cargo cult folks might have theorized about who the strange people with their advanced flying machines were, where they came from, where they went and how their technology worked? And they were fellow humans, at least.
I'm saying that we should be aware of the assumptions we make, that's all. And you never know what inspiration the speculation might spark - we learned to fly by watching birds. But it did take a while.
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
Yes, we can wrap our head around it, that is the whole point. General Relativity gives us a very good idea. That is what @Thomas R. Morrison had been explaining all the time.
Hundreds of independent witnesses is not a trivial when dealing with elusive thing like UFOs. These people didn't know of each other and they didn't know of electric field either. And double more so when distance estimates accurately line up on inverse square law curve that is the exact curve that describes electric field's distribution. That's something you can take to the bank.
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pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Maybe. Maybe not. Time will tell. I'm not being dismissive, just pointing out that eyewitness testimony is a thin reed.
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
Important part is what 450 witnesses said complies with law of Physics. That is like DNA proof in a criminal case, gives their testimony rock solid credibility.
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nivek
As Above So Below
Most likely neighbors would be visiting this planet before, say, aliens from another dimension or from another galaxy...I would suspect our neighbors would find us first...
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pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Eyewitness testimony has imprisoned many wrongfully accused people. DNA evidence has overturned a number of improper convictions. There are groups dedicated to this. And I guess that's my point.
Here's the thing: I'm actually inclined to agree with what you are saying. In fact, I'd like to believe it's true. But I just can't make that final step without something more solid. Is that honestly unreasonable?
If you are going to invoke @Thomas R. Morrison I think he recently said he has produced a paper and submitted it for peer review. Hey, that's really cool - I couldn't do that. If he is the benchmark then let's see what those qualified to do so make of it.
In the meantime you're stuck with some nitwit like me. Long time interest. Skepticism more frequently reinforced than not. Let's see where actual verifiable facts lead us and be wary of confirmation bias. I think that's a way of saying don't jump to conclusions.
Our best bet seems to be TTSA. I've been waiting decades and am willing to wait a while longer and am under no deadline to come to a conclusion. To be fair, to play Devil's Advocate, what if they fail to produce anything solid? I would think that someone heavily invested in all this might at least consider the possibility. Hell, when you play chess you at least consider the potential vulnerability of any move you might make.If TTSA produces something solid, well then I'll jump on the bandwagon and band the drum as loud as anybody.
Here's the thing: I'm actually inclined to agree with what you are saying. In fact, I'd like to believe it's true. But I just can't make that final step without something more solid. Is that honestly unreasonable?
If you are going to invoke @Thomas R. Morrison I think he recently said he has produced a paper and submitted it for peer review. Hey, that's really cool - I couldn't do that. If he is the benchmark then let's see what those qualified to do so make of it.
In the meantime you're stuck with some nitwit like me. Long time interest. Skepticism more frequently reinforced than not. Let's see where actual verifiable facts lead us and be wary of confirmation bias. I think that's a way of saying don't jump to conclusions.
Our best bet seems to be TTSA. I've been waiting decades and am willing to wait a while longer and am under no deadline to come to a conclusion. To be fair, to play Devil's Advocate, what if they fail to produce anything solid? I would think that someone heavily invested in all this might at least consider the possibility. Hell, when you play chess you at least consider the potential vulnerability of any move you might make.If TTSA produces something solid, well then I'll jump on the bandwagon and band the drum as loud as anybody.
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humanoidlord
ce3 researcher
come on thomas! have you never heard those weirdos that say that they are in constant contact with aliens or are being abdcuted almost daily by them? i am talking about those people
humanoidlord
ce3 researcher
hmmm, i am interested, has any research ever been done in that sector by the scientific community?
humanoidlord
ce3 researcher
hmmm, i doubt that works either, god knows what those saucers use to defend themselves
humanoidlord
ce3 researcher
theran 1976
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Careful with that axe, Eugene. For once if somebody has something solid to contribute then let them and be damned with personalities. Let evidence stand for itself.
But Jesus, do I hear you. Somebody produce some please. Sick of the woo woo
nivek
As Above So Below
Some people are being abducted by aliens in this world, they are not weird because of having to deal with that...
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humanoidlord
ce3 researcher
indeed they are, i am talking about the liars that claim that they are being abducted, but aren't in reality
CasualBystander
Celestial
Rail gun would do it.
HVW is the solution to most flying problems.
Current rail guns are 10 km/s and they should be able to ramp up 15 km/s.
By the time a target 10 klicks away realizes they have been fired at, they've been hit.
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