To The Stars Academy: Investigating the Unexplained

[Spaceman spiff]

I just dont see this as being some everyday moneymaking scam. So several of these high reputation high ranking people just tought one day "hey, lets all gather around and pull a longshot ufo money scam, lets get some videos from the government via cheat and convince the public and congress theyre ufos, and lets do it while getting as much media attention as possible. Lets put all our own and our families reputations on this wild trick. And we wont get caught, no sir."

If it is so, its an operation of some kind cooked up by someone in CIA. Definately. No way these people are so stupid or crazy as to go for a regular scam this bad. Its like putting a hangmans noose around your neck and happily stepping the stairs to the gallows, publicly. Even in that event, youd have to ask, why? Why now? Why bother with the UFO community, when you could just continue to ignore them? And every poking just sends more signals that youre hiding something.

 

[Thomas R. Morrison]

This only reinforced my suspicion that TTSA has been founded on a false pretense and that what we're seeing is Elizondo's retirement gig.

That's bullshit. You and JG would seriously have us consider that the pilots and the radar operators and the other military witnesses from events on both coasts spanning over a decade, would lie about their encounters with anomalous aerial vehicles...just to help Elizondo et al. raise money on a hoax?

No. I realize that there are lots of unanswered questions. But there are always unanswered questions in life, and reading suspicions into missing data points is about as credible as reading tea leaves.

Frankly it looks to me like JG is just one of many UFO researchers who are butt-hurt that they've never been contacted by TTSA, and palpably resentful that the spotlight has shifted away from their own work.

 

[pigfarmer]

That's bullshit

Gee Thomas, how do you really feel? I've said several times that I believe the pilots. I don't believe Luis Elizondo and I don't believe TTSA.

As for JG, I'm not here to defend him. But I will at least listen to what he has to say - and right now what he's saying is worth paying attention to. TTSA could end all this and isn't doing that, or can't. They've said a lot of things that have have required 'clarification.' All we have to show for our patience is that nonsense History Channel offering; they took the money and that's what they did with it. Regardless of what they are saying that's the one thing you can point to that they've done. And thanks for that, because we needed another stupid documentary. They pounded the living shit out of those videos - you could have edited it into three hours minus all the repetition. I believe those videos are all they have and very likely are being misrepresented.

There are no lack of 'UFO researchers' who will believe anything they're told, especially if it confirms their pet theories. That is the point actually. Elizondo knew he could throw any shit he wants up against the UFOlogical wall and some of it, no matter how outrageous, will stick. Not only will it stick but it will bond at an atomic level never to be removed. Proven time and time again. And the beauty of it is, nobody has to actually prove anything.

This is why I said nobody's mind will be changed. We're all firmly entrenched in one camp or another and we'll just throw crap back and forth until something changes. In the mean time let's get on with those metamaterials, cubesats, the cure for cancer and crabgrass, and whatever else they've said is coming next.

 

[Spaceman spiff]

That's bullshit. You and JG would seriously have us consider that the pilots and the radar operators and the other military witnesses from events on both coasts spanning over a decade, would lie about their encounters with anomalous aerial vehicles...just to help Elizondo et al. raise money on a hoax?

No. I realize that there are lots of unanswered questions. But there are always unanswered questions in life, and reading suspicions into missing data points is about as credible as reading tea leaves.

Frankly it looks to me like JG is just one of many UFO researchers who are butt-hurt that they've never been contacted by TTSA, and palpably resentful that the spotlight has shifted away from their own work.

JG doesnt think the pilots are lying. He just thinks TTSA and Elizondo are not being honest with their endeavor. He has actually lamented the fact that the Nimitz and other cases are now pretty much liked to TTSA and its reputation, wherever it goes. He thinks those cases are worthy and need more investigation.

 

[nivek]

TTSA could end all this and isn't doing that, or can't. They've said a lot of things that have have required 'clarification.'

This is something I don't understand, surely TTSA knows what being said about them, they surely are aware of JG campaign against them, and make no mistake about it, JG is extremely biased against TTSA and shows it...So why doesn't TTSA put out a couple statements clarifying some sticky points and provide a bit of data to back it up?...Seems that could go along way in their favour...The arrogance in JG's voice whenever he's on about TTSA turns my stomach making it difficult to listen to anything he has to say...He could lighten up a bit because he is alienating people...

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[pigfarmer]

The arrogance in JG's voice whenever he's on about TTSA turns my stomach making it difficult to listen to

Agreed. He claims to want to take the high road but it's disingenuous to say the least.
He's very experienced with FOIA and I recall hearing him being interviewed on The Paracast and he was generally considered to be a person doing excellent work and making it available to others. Personality aside I think he's making some valid points.

surely TTSA knows what being said about them, they surely are aware of JG campaign against them, and make no mistake about it, JG is extremely biased against TTSA and shows it...So why doesn't TTSA put out a couple statements clarifying some sticky points

That was part of the Black Vault episode I just mentioned. JG's opinion is that TTSA's response has been misdirection not clarification. Also that they have co-opted Alejandro Rojas and are using him as a mouthpiece to address dissenters. Standard spin tactics if true. Total disclosure regarding their past should start with Elizondo & Co. Then we can talk about UFOs.

 

[nivek]

Also that they have co-opted Alejandro Rojas and are using him as a mouthpiece to address dissenters. Standard spin tactics if true.

You're stating that as a fact when I think its just JG's opinion or suspicion, at least I'm not sure if that's true or not, could be that Rojas is taking it upon himself to 'help out'...

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[Spaceman spiff]

While JG has taken a stand against TTSA, Rojas seems to have jumped on their bandwagon, along with Joe Murgia, Danny Silva etc. I hope it doesnt cost him in the long run.

Knapp is definately their favorite tough, he has basically become the close to the source channel they use to get anything out with. And why not, the man already has close relationship with Bigelow and is known as a pro UFO reporter. Just wish he would drop that fraud Lazar and not parade him around like Corbell does.

I think Lazar resurfaced recently so he could profit on the coat tails of all the recent media hype about TTSA and AATIP. Corbell follows him cause hes a poor mans version of James Fox and an opportunist, but Knapp should really have sense to drop him at this point. Lazar is a dead end.

 

[nivek]

This is why I said nobody's mind will be changed. We're all firmly entrenched in one camp or another and we'll just throw crap back and forth until something changes. In the mean time let's get on with those metamaterials, cubesats, the cure for cancer and crabgrass, and whatever else they've said is coming next.

I'm still in the optimistic 'camp', TTSA was getting my support early on but then after some of what I call major disappointments they still have a little of my support...This hype early on about the meta-materials then all we hear are crickets except for Delonge's happy go lucky tweets really set my mood concerning them...

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[Spaceman spiff]

Im in the neutral camp. Im intrested in what they eventually produce, that can stand up to scrutiny. If they produce it, that is. It sure is taking its time. I know research, scrutiny and confirmation takes time, but maybe you shouldnt hype something until youre ready to show it? Its just gonna bring in suspicion and piss off those you have already gathered.

For their sakes, they better have something.

On a related note, Ive heard Spiegel and Vallee saying same kinds of things about not TTSA, but apparently some unrelated group/s also testing metamaterials/anomalous materials and trying to bring them out. Kinda curious.

 

[pigfarmer]

You're stating that as a fact when I think its just JG's opinion or suspicion, at least I'm not sure if that's true or not, could be that Rojas is taking it upon himself to 'help out'...

...

No I’m not stating that just repeating what JG said.

JG's opinion is that TTSA's response has been misdirection not clarification. Also that they have co-opted Alejandro Rojas and are using him as a mouthpiece to address dissenters.

Just listened to JG’s interview with Erica Lukes. He certainly has a hard on for TTSA. Absolutely saturates his podcast

 

[nivek]

Just listened to JG’s interview with Erica Lukes. He certainly has a hard on for TTSA. Absolutely saturates his podcast

Yeah, he is laying it on thick, I think he ought to probably back off them a little if he really expects TTSA to respond in any way soon...

...

 

[nivek]

The Blink-182 guy is failing to persuade people about UFOs

Established in 2017, To The Stars Academy is a shareholder-based organization focused on the research and technological exploitation of unidentified aerial phenomena (a.k.a. UFOs). But where some see a cutting-edge team pushing the frontiers of scientific knowledge, others see a hare-brained investment scheme of uncertain form. What's the truth?

The group is closest to being described as a cutting-edge team, but there are a couple of concerns that show critiques of it being hare-brained are reasonable.

One issue on the problematic front is that TTSA's founder, former Blink-182 star Tom DeLonge, is less bound to the data than his colleagues. This undercuts DeLonge's better work and that of TTSA's impressive leadership team. That team includes Steve Justice, a 31-year veteran of Lockheed Martin's elite "Skunk Works," Luis Elizondo, who headed up the Pentagon's research effort into unidentified aerial phenomena, and Hal Puthoff, long a key figure in experimental science. Those individuals enable TTSA to research the UFO issue in a scientific manner and with utility for technological advancement.

Consider TTSA's studies into hypersonic travel through multiple domains of air, space, and water. Whether you are interested in UFOs or not, that research matters in the context of Chinese and Russian hypersonic weapon capabilities.

Moreover, the now-established data on unexplained aerial phenomena is undeniable. Since at least 2004, numerous U.S. Navy aircrews have seen hypersonic- and anti-gravity-capable unidentified aerial phenomena with their eyes and on their gun cameras. This phenomena evidences technical performance capabilities far in advance of any national military. In some cases, that data is matched by satellite tracking, sonar, and radar data sets. This issue is real and significant. TTSA deserves credit for investigating it with seriousness.

But TTSA still has some issues.

While DeLonge deserves praise for getting his team together and for bringing the issue into the public space, he sometimes loses focus on TTSA's mission. When, for example, DeLonge connects the mythological city of Atlantis to UFOs, he casts into doubt everything else he says. That's a problem for DeLonge as much as his organization.

After all, DeLonge actually has much to offer on this issue. In the same interview where he mentioned Atlantis, for example, DeLonge offered a simple but accurate explanation of space-time manipulation as a theoretical means of travel. What DeLonge said comports with a study contracted by the Defense Intelligence Agency's former UFO research arm. But DeLonge explains it in a way that makes the listener get to the crux of the issue, quickly.

Another problem is TTSA's transparency. Apart from a select few journalists, TTSA does not make it easy for the media to talk to its officers. While TTSA has suffered some unfair reporting, this reflex towards secrecy is inconsistent with the group's stated mission to pursue visible research. The lack of transparency also matters in that TTSA's model is built around attracting private investment (see DeLonge's tweet last week).

Where does this leave us?

TTSA is doing important work. But when you're trying to persuade people that UFOs are a real issue, public credibility is crucial. TTSA should be more open and DeLonge more careful with what he says.

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[nivek]

The last paragraph of the write up above speaks volumes...I don't think DeLonge has been doing TTSA any favours lately...

TTSA is doing important work. But when you're trying to persuade people that UFOs are a real issue, public credibility is crucial. TTSA should be more open and DeLonge more careful with what he says.

 

[pigfarmer]

This is as addictive as the Gene Steinberg's Financial Shenanigans thread.
I have to loosen my grip on the throttle a bit lest I take a JG-style turn on this.
Just pointing out that the King is naked, or sure as hell looks that way

 

[Dejan Corovic]

You know, when brothers Wilbur & Orvil Wright flew their contraption on a Kitty Hawk, all the local and national papers ignored the story for 5 years. It's only after they started flying on county fairs that papers started believeing them.

Dealing with general public is a bitch.

 

[nivek]

Yawn...

 

[Thomas R. Morrison]

I've said several times that I believe the pilots. I don't believe Luis Elizondo and I don't believe TTSA.

But Luis Elizondo and TTSA brought us the testimony of the pilots and the radar operators - which is imo among the best testimony we've ever heard in this field. So taking swipes at them while embracing the military officers they brought to us seems, I dunno, perhaps a bit ungrateful.

All we have to show for our patience is that nonsense History Channel offering; they took the money and that's what they did with it. Regardless of what they are saying that's the one thing you can point to that they've done.

What about the mainstream news articles in the NYT and WaPo and cable news media that finally give this whole subject the credence that it has always merited? After a lifetime of hushed conversations on this topic we can now discuss it openly without the knee-jerk ridicule factor, because we can point to the official Pentagon program that Luis Elizondo ran for 8 or 9 years (which we also would've never known about if Elizondo hadn't ditched his cushy job and decided to go public). They did that.

I believe those videos are all they have and very likely are being misrepresented.

So you don't believe the pilots, then? Cmdr. Fravor validated the Tic-Tac footage and said that he saw the original complete hi-rez version of that footage, and it was so clear the you could see the little appendages sticking out of the bottom of the craft[1][2]. The pilot in the case off the East Coast also validated the Go Fast footage and said that the object he flew past looked like a cube inside of a strange clear sphere.

So you can't simultaneously say that you believe the pilots and also deny the significance of the videos.

And the beauty of it is, nobody has to actually prove anything.

"Proof" is a subjective standard, and as unattainable as a person wants it to be. We've been over this.

This is why I said nobody's mind will be changed.

A lot of minds have been changed. The evidence is all over the mainstream media - I've never seen such serious coverage of this topic in the news media. And that has a wide impact on their audiences too.

Agreed. He claims to want to take the high road but it's disingenuous to say the least.
He's very experienced with FOIA and I recall hearing him being interviewed on The Paracast and he was generally considered to be a person doing excellent work and making it available to others. Personality aside I think he's making some valid points.

JG has done a lot of great work and The Black Vault is perhaps the best research resource that we have in this field. But he's clearly on some kind of jihad against TTSA. Both things can be true.

I think it's twisted and totally disingenuous for him to claim advocacy for the cases that Luis Elizondo and TTSA have brought to our attention (along with the existence of the AATIP itself), and yet try to pretend that they're not inseparably related.

We wouldn't know anything about the AATIP, these cases, nor would the pilots and radar operators have come forward, if not for the direct actions of Luis Elizondo and TTSA. At the very least, they deserve our thanks for that stuff.

I also think that the ADAM project is really happening, slowly, behind the scenes, and that Steve Justice will have something very scientifically significant when he's ready to present the findings. But that's based on my gut read of the man - I'm not asking anyone to accept that personal assessment. I do expect it to be vindicated, in time, though.


[1] “When you look at the high-res video that… good luck finding it… but the original video that we had, so literally right off the jet recorders and putting it on our monitors, so we’re watching it on like a 21 inch or 20 TV – you can see in the TV mode ’cause the WSO the backseat or the other airplane is going between IR, which is a infrared mode to an EO which is electro-optical black-and-white, when you go to the TV mode he’s pretty zoomed in. You can see there’s two little things that stick out of the bottom of it.”


[2] "And then the other side is is because nothing was done and a lot of the stuff is lost. Like we have the tapes. We have the radar tape and the FLIR tape. The FLIR tape is what you guys have seen but it’s been degraded so many times because it’s been copied. But on the high-res monitors it was pretty good. And then the radar tape actually showed, you know, the thing. As we hit it with the radar, it started to jam. Went to the jam extrapolate and the aspect vector started spinning around because it didn’t want to be locked up. And Chad saw that, you know, that’s what he had seen when he did it. And then, obviously the video. But all the radar tapes from the Princeton…there’s a bunch of stuff that’s missing that they can’t find.”
F/A-18 Pilot Fravor: “I Don’t Believe The Technology Was Developed Here. And I Mean…On This Planet.” » Joe Murgia

 

[pigfarmer]

What about the mainstream news articles in the NYT and WaPo and cable news media that finally give this whole subject the credence that it has always merited?

Oh is that what happened? I guess I missed that part because there's still an awful lot of snickering going on about the topic.

Thomas, this is another ping pong match that many are having. Only some external change will influence opinion. I'd like to think that would be TTSA backing up it's claims and not JG poking holes in them. As for the value of what they've brought to the table, that remains to be seen.

 

[Thomas R. Morrison]

Oh is that what happened? I guess I missed that part because there's still an awful lot of snickering going on about the topic.

There's been more favorable mainstream news media coverage of this topic in the last two years than in the last fifty years combined. Giuliano Marinkovic has been maintaining an online archive of it all here:
Pentagon UFO Media 2019

That's a crucial first step to pave the way for open political debate about this subject, so that one day we can get the hard data released from the Pentagon vaults. Sure there's still a lot of ground to cover because the MIC has built up a fortress of ridicule surrounding AAVs over seven decades. But the progress so far has been damn impressive.

Credit where credit's due.